____twoism

Post rock. Huge chunks of wildly popular stuff coming out in the last 10 years at least.

"Theirs is music for the mind rahter than for the body or the soul. They are the celebration of cold thought over emotion."

Ugh *shudder*

I do genuinely love quite a bit of Autechre, particularly Amber through to LP5 and parts of the last couple of records too. Sometimes their methods produce such astonishingly otherworldly (and beautiful) melodies that I can't think of anyone else who would have come across them. I liken Autechre to striking modernist architecture - I enjoy spending a few hours in that space but I certainly couldn't live there.

I've never much cared for virtuoso musicianship and that extends to electronic musicians who create technically bewildering but emotionally and melodically empty music. I would probably put most of Squarepusher's work into that category.

Autechre for me is in the same basket as Aphex Twin to an extent, their catalogue is littered with highlights but overall it's pretty meh.

Autechre is always so impenetrable, but it's not completely unlistenable, it's just their material post Untilted has been not bad, just kind of running around in circles, like they've run out of ideas. Their material has been a slow progression upon the previous, but it's a little too slow, and Quaristice was the last one that I was really on board with.
Especially all the Quaristice bonus material, almost seems like they have an over excess of just noodling which they don't put that much thought into. I mean I know it was meant to show a jammier side of Autechre, but Autechre isn't the kind of music I want jams from, if I want jams I'll go to Grateful Dead.
Exai needs to be a radical departure for me to really be interested in them again.

Ian you mentioned Squarepusher, and out of all of these "classic IDM artists" i.e. Ae, AFX, Plaid, Two Lonely Swordsmen, Prefuse, to an extent even BoC, Squarepusher is the one I put on top.
I think his jazz influenced style really helped my musical progression, because of him jazz and funk are a huge part of my music taste. For him I wouldn't have gotten interested in the classics like Davis, Brubeck, Hancock, etc. and stuff like D'Angelo, Sly & The Family Stone, and to an extent classic hip hop.

I mean he's been rubbish for about 10 years, (bar Just a Souvenir and the Numbers Lucent EP, which seemed like he decided to screw his head on for a bit and actually get back to an updated version of his roots) but his first 4 records are all classics of IDM/experimental electronica, and I say Hard Normal Daddy and Music is Rotted One Note are classic records period.

It's a completely personal bias, but I'm here to throw spanners in machinery like I seem to do on this board.

MrMessiah wrote:Post rock. Huge chunks of wildly popular stuff coming out in the last 10 years at least.

I may or may not agree. I like post-rock that deserves to be described as post-rock (i.e. stuff that is actually quite experimentally-minded and forward thinking), but find myself more and more bored to tears by stuff that's just essentially instrumental rock with increasingly predictable characteristics (partly because of how their fans are so humourlessly wanky and pretentious about it).

Treefingers wrote:

MrMessiah wrote:Post rock. Huge chunks of wildly popular stuff coming out in the last 10 years at least.

I may or may not agree. I like post-rock that deserves to be described as post-rock (i.e. stuff that is actually quite experimentally-minded and forward thinking), but find myself more and more bored to tears by stuff that's just essentially instrumental rock with increasingly predictable characteristics (partly because of how their fans are so humourlessly wanky and pretentious about it).

I think we're on the same page. I probably need to hear some of the good stuff to get it. I've lost count of how many times I've heard buzz around an artist, looked them up, had my intereset piqued by flashy cover art and then ended up going "oh, this again".

On Autechre, 2LS, Squarepusher and the "early wave IDM" crowd, I wonder how much this has to do with being able to see it in context. IE, if you weren't there to see those albums when they came out, they're hard to get into now? There was a period of about 5-7 years when everyone was experimenting, and some of what came out was undoubtably half taking the piss. By which I mean, artists like U-Ziq and Aphex who had discovered a new way to fuck about with your expectations of what the music sounded like and drove right off the cliff into heavy experimentation. Autechre's generative phase - same thing. Some of it was rough and downright hard to listen to, but there was a sense on hearing it for the first time of "wow, this is going somewhere new and interesting".

Then a few years later it gets pared back and they use the techniques a bit more sparingly and deliberately and come out with some of their best stuff.

MrMessiah wrote:

Treefingers wrote:

MrMessiah wrote:Post rock. Huge chunks of wildly popular stuff coming out in the last 10 years at least.

I may or may not agree. I like post-rock that deserves to be described as post-rock (i.e. stuff that is actually quite experimentally-minded and forward thinking), but find myself more and more bored to tears by stuff that's just essentially instrumental rock with increasingly predictable characteristics (partly because of how their fans are so humourlessly wanky and pretentious about it).

I think we're on the same page. I probably need to hear some of the good stuff to get it. I've lost count of how many times I've heard buzz around an artist, looked them up, had my intereset piqued by flashy cover art and then ended up going "oh, this again".

On Autechre, 2LS, Squarepusher and the "early wave IDM" crowd, I wonder how much this has to do with being able to see it in context. IE, if you weren't there to see those albums when they came out, they're hard to get into now? There was a period of about 5-7 years when everyone was experimenting, and some of what came out was undoubtably half taking the piss. By which I mean, artists like U-Ziq and Aphex who had discovered a new way to fuck about with your expectations of what the music sounded like and drove right off the cliff into heavy experimentation. Autechre's generative phase - same thing. Some of it was rough and downright hard to listen to, but there was a sense on hearing it for the first time of "wow, this is going somewhere new and interesting".

Then a few years later it gets pared back and they use the techniques a bit more sparingly and deliberately and come out with some of their best stuff.

Thats kinda my opinion about autechre.
I see a lot in print about their max / msp programming skills , or their ability to program in some alien and very esoteric language that only stephen hawking could do while he eats his cornflakes , but , it doesnt equate to musical ability. Self expression , yes , and everyone is entitled to that , but music...? ........i dont think so.
All that generative stuff does my nut in. Not only is it garbled , but its kinda insulting to make an album of generative noodlings and sell it. I imagine them saying " people wont care.....just as long as it says autechre on the cover , they'll buy it , just to be seen as being cool "

Im old enough to have bought the album with amber , foil , silverside et al , when it first came out. I was listening to a lot of polygon window , sabres of paradise , very early orbital , detroit techno , and it was good back then , but somewhere along the way they seem to have taken a detour up their own pretentious backsides. Its a pity really.

of course everything has context, but if an album can rise above the context, then that's when you know it's truly great.
When listening you don't think of a scene, a genre, other albums, or even the artists themselves, you just hear great music.

Also thirding the whole post rock thing, Explosions in the Sky, Mono, and bands that follow in such a way just bore me to death.
Do Make Say Think had country/folk/jazz influences to the now blue print post rock sound which made them interesting, and Godspeed You Black Emperor started out as head figures and ended up sounding like they're imitating.
Mogwai are still great, and still experimenting, and keeping their "rock" sound which I enjoy.

Stereolab and Tortoise are my favourite post rock bands, and they're not even considered post rock.

Tortoise are awesome

I guess with any music you nit pick your way through, post rock just has the added baggage of having a load of idiots associated to it. Though you could say that about any genre.

The Telepathic Kid wrote:Ian you mentioned Squarepusher, and out of all of these "classic IDM artists" i.e. Ae, AFX, Plaid, Two Lonely Swordsmen, Prefuse, to an extent even BoC, Squarepusher is the one I put on top.
I think his jazz influenced style really helped my musical progression, because of him jazz and funk are a huge part of my music taste. For him I wouldn't have gotten interested in the classics like Davis, Brubeck, Hancock, etc. and stuff like D'Angelo, Sly & The Family Stone, and to an extent classic hip hop.

I mean he's been rubbish for about 10 years, (bar Just a Souvenir and the Numbers Lucent EP, which seemed like he decided to screw his head on for a bit and actually get back to an updated version of his roots) but his first 4 records are all classics of IDM/experimental electronica, and I say Hard Normal Daddy and Music is Rotted One Note are classic records period.

Actually, I'm in agreement with you. I loved Hard Normal Daddy, and still enjoy it now. In that respect it's a similar career trajectory to Autechre - some great early records descending in to self-parody. I always felt Squarepusher had an amazing album in him that never quite materialised.

I'm also with MrMessiah regarding context. I saw Squarepusher playing a small tent at the same festival I saw Aphex doing his Richard D James set from inside a wendy house. At that time it made everything else at that festival seem a good 10 years out of date. My mind was well and truly blown.

My 2 cents. I think this thread is extremely destructive and is all about hate. I remember a few years ago saying I liked Mylo, and got severly mocked for it. We need to be more enthusiatic about we like as opposed to what we hate. This is not constructive, IMO.

hexagon son wrote:My 2 cents. I think this thread is extremely destructive and is all about hate. I remember a few years ago saying I liked Mylo, and got severly mocked for it. We need to be more enthusiatic about we like as opposed to what we hate. This is not constructive, IMO.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think deconstructing music you don't like is useful to the extent that you can understand your own taste and preferences as well as others' tastes. To me criticism is just as important as open mindedness because it helps build a comprehensive understanding of self and other. I also don't think this thread is destructive or about hate at all- I think it's just an expression of opinion.

The truth is there's always going to be music out there someone considers shit- and I don't think criticizing it is so bad. Now, believing that one's opinion to be better than another's in the case of music- that's the real problem.

TaoTapeTao wrote:

hexagon son wrote:My 2 cents. I think this thread is extremely destructive and is all about hate. I remember a few years ago saying I liked Mylo, and got severly mocked for it. We need to be more enthusiatic about we like as opposed to what we hate. This is not constructive, IMO.

I'm going to have to disagree. I think deconstructing music you don't like is useful to the extent that you can understand your own taste and preferences as well as others' tastes. To me criticism is just as important as open mindedness because it helps build a comprehensive understanding of self and other. I also don't think this thread is destructive or about hate at all- I think it's just an expression of opinion.

The truth is there's always going to be music out there someone considers shit- and I don't think criticizing it is so bad. Now, believing that one's opinion to be better than another's in the case of music- that's the real problem.

Yeah -- this thread's more about 'not getting stuff' and inviting people to discuss that (by making recommendations / suggestions) rather than just ranting about music we hate.

hexagon son wrote:My 2 cents. I think this thread is extremely destructive and is all about hate. I remember a few years ago saying I liked Mylo, and got severly mocked for it. We need to be more enthusiatic about we like as opposed to what we hate. This is not constructive, IMO.

Mylo are terrible. Surely you cant be serious !!








Ps. I dont even know who mylo are.

hexagon son wrote:My 2 cents. I think this thread is extremely destructive and is all about hate. I remember a few years ago saying I liked Mylo, and got severly mocked for it. We need to be more enthusiatic about we like as opposed to what we hate. This is not constructive, IMO.

Not getting something is not the same as hating something.

hexagon son wrote:This is not constructive, IMO.

I think this is a fair point. Casting such wholesale disapproval on an artist or band can seem to put you in sort of an elitist position. Like, the one of the best ways to elevate yourself is to confidently deride something, specifically something that others revere. 

So, it's obviously always better to approach music with as open of a mind as you can possibly manage. 

To be honest, I think many people in this thread demonstrate this kind if open-mindedness, but that doesn't mean you can't dislike anything. I think you get in trouble once you cross the line between expressing your own personal distaste for something and outright unwarranted ridicule. 

I also think its kinda nice to have some healthy doubt towards the musical greats that everyone widely praises. 

kennychiwa147 wrote:

hexagon son wrote:This is not constructive, IMO.

I think this is a fair point. Casting such wholesale disapproval on an artist or band can seem to put you in sort of an elitist position. Like, the one of the best ways to elevate yourself is to confidently deride something, specifically something that others revere. 

So, it's obviously always better to approach music with as open of a mind as you can possibly manage. 

To be honest, I think many people in this thread demonstrate this kind if open-mindedness, but that doesn't mean you can't dislike anything. I think you get in trouble once you cross the line between expressing your own personal distaste for something and outright unwarranted ridicule. 

I also think its kinda nice to have some healthy doubt towards the musical greats that everyone widely praises. 

I like to think i have an independent mind , and i dont run with the herd. Im not interested in hype. Im interested in merit , and actual musical qualification. In short , telling it like it is.
True , music is relative , and one mans meat is another mans murder , but theres nothing wrong with voicing an opinion of dislike.

Synthestesia wrote:I'm sorry but fuck muse.

















fuck em

Still makes me laugh, everytime I see it

hexagon son wrote:This is not constructive, IMO.

we're on an internet message board, there's nothing constructive about being here, why not bring down the ship a bit more while we're at it.

Also Mylo's Destroy Rock & Roll is one of the best "forgotten" house records of the past 10 years, I dunno who bagged you out but they obviously don't know what fun music is.

kennychiwa147 wrote:

hexagon son wrote:This is not constructive, IMO.

I think this is a fair point. Casting such wholesale disapproval on an artist or band can seem to put you in sort of an elitist position. Like, the one of the best ways to elevate yourself is to confidently deride something, specifically something that others revere. 

So, it's obviously always better to approach music with as open of a mind as you can possibly manage. 

To be honest, I think many people in this thread demonstrate this kind if open-mindedness, but that doesn't mean you can't dislike anything. I think you get in trouble once you cross the line between expressing your own personal distaste for something and outright unwarranted ridicule. 

I also think its kinda nice to have some healthy doubt towards the musical greats that everyone widely praises. 

Yes I agree. I think part of open mindedness is also admitting fault or offering criticism, but also another part of open mindedness is admitting the humility of opinion.