____twoism

what's really more egregious is an 84 for inferno on aoty, that's super low. and of course the fantano 6 is bad but he's just one person, he has a lot of horrible takes

Fantano with the 6 even after ample listening opportunity - the mug

sowhereareyouliving? wrote:Fantano with the 6 even after ample listening opportunity - the mug

Bulllshit artist. I was behind him with his TH review but this is really silly.

Why make ratings of other people so important? It's just opinions, even if the whole world hated the album that would be fine for me as long as I like it. All that matters in the end is what it does for you personally.

Yeah I mean I don't love that review but at least it's sane and thought through

I watched a quick clip of him reacting to the album in real time, on a live-stream while texting people and chatting to followers between each track. Clearly the optimum listening experience that BoC intended.

Sherbet Head wrote:I watched a quick clip of him reacting to the album in real time, on a live-stream while texting people and chatting to followers between each track. Clearly the optimum listening experience that BoC intended.

Haha have not seen the review but I saw this with some other first listen reviews. Just shows that a lot of people don't really listen. Their attention is not fully present and for me that completely invalidates anything people will say about it. Might sound a bit harsh but I cba to listen to people that don't really listen.

It's just a thought that crossed my mind but in the same vein I feel that that's the reason that some people can't really appreciate all the layers and little details, this album even more so than prior ones is full of it and the production is just insane.

Well between that and perhaps having a shitty hifi setup and not being able to listen without constantly thinking about it, instead of listening and being still inside while doing so.

Widmerpool wrote:It is already below 4... but I wouldn't take any RateYourMusic's average ratings too seriously, a site renowned for its fitful and extremely biased activity which translates itself to bloated and outrageous and overall unfair scores. Some of them stink to high heaven whereas others feel suspiciously high, more often than not the byproduct of vested interests and echo chambers. What bugs me isn't the system's shortcomings but the filtering aspect, the fact that an increasing number of so-called music fans treats their average score as oracular of a given album's quality and only then is tempted to listen to it in earnest, much like how Metacritic operates with other media.

So, yeah. RYM. Useful enough for discovering purposes and little else.

RYM is definitely a bit of a subculture of sorts. I still can't get over how they make up genres like Zolo, Zeuhl or Pigfuck that sort of make sense as shorthand but don't resist closer scrutiny (for instance, classifying P-Model's early albums, with their extremely bitter, political, lyrics, as whimsical, quirky, polka-dot Zolo fare seems very weird to me).

I genuinely can't fathom how Fantano has managed to stay relevant all throughout the years, reviews having significantly dropped in number and quality as time went by, stolid and incurious, sticking to his pet genres (namely hip hop and popstar fuzz) which he dispatches with conspicuously repetitive tropes, to all appearance more interested in celebrity drama than music itself. That he stoops so low as to make live reaction streamings is sad but unsurprising. There's a myriad reviews channels better than his to dig into; my Grandma, who is past ninety and hasn't ventured far beyond coplas and rancheras, is far more insightful about the music she listens to, much to her credit of course.

I used to enjoy his takes. They made me want to broaden my horizons and jump into new music. Now that hardly ever happens.
But as Gabrielle D'Annunzio said at The Hague Convention, ''either die a hero or live long enough to play the foe''.
Or (alternatively) you can take the Sandison brothers' example and keep your integrity up and kicking well into the end of times.

akirako wrote:for instance, classifying P-Model's early albums, with their extremely bitter, political, lyrics, as whimsical, quirky, polka-dot Zolo fare seems very weird to me

As with many other examples, camarada. RYM tags usually make up for a careless melting pot. Easy to blink at.

Gazebo4 wrote:

Sherbet Head wrote:I watched a quick clip of him reacting to the album in real time, on a live-stream while texting people and chatting to followers between each track. Clearly the optimum listening experience that BoC intended.

Haha have not seen the review but I saw this with some other first listen reviews. Just shows that a lot of people don't really listen. Their attention is not fully present and for me that completely invalidates anything people will say about it. Might sound a bit harsh but I cba to listen to people that don't really listen.

Yeah, the whole thing feels very inauthentic.

That's what was so great about the listening sessions; other than a couple of folks using their phones, we were all sat there and basically forced to focus on nothing but the tunes.

Fantano only has his criticism, that's his whole life. Musicians spend months/years doing their thing, and Fantano spends 15 minutes ripping it down.
I also think that when you go through as many albums as he does, your appreciation for slowly evolving music depreciates. He wants novelty every 20 seconds or he gets bored.

When a passion becomes a job.

I just don't see the appeal of Fantano; he isn't a very insightful music critic at all. He doesn't have some kind of fresh angle or real-life experience that would give his takes a special edge. But is he funny? No. Is he charismatic or charming or attractive? No... So, uh, yeah, I remain baffled that there are people out there who hold his opinion in such high esteem that RYM scores will often instantly go down or up if he pans or praises a certain album. Now THAT's cult mentality stuff right there.

It's a shame; music criticism used to be a real thing. We used to have Lester Bangs, or Robert Christgau (still around admittedly but not nearly as influential), or Charles Shaar Murray or Ian MacDonald (my favorite - check out his incredible Beatles book, Revolution In the Head, if you haven't already). What the best critics often did was place a certain record or band in its proper context -- it wasn't just about the music itself, not only that anyway. There was also the sociopolitical climate, the circumstances of how/when a record was made, etc. And when it came to the music, these critics often knew their stuff -- they knew music theory, they knew basic terms like "middle eight," they were eloquent and well-studied and not just music "nerds" who sit in a room and go through an artist's discography while distractedly chatting with 100 different people on some stream. These "music nerds" (as opposed to actual critics) seem to regard their profession as akin to Pokemon - "gotta catch 'em all." It's all about meaningless statistics, about cateloging and rating. And so all they care about is being completionists, in being able to say "yes I've listened to every single song Bob Dylan has released, and here's how I rate them all on a scale of 1 to 10!"

You see this attitude a lot browsing RYM (a very useful site but one with limitations). But you shouldn't see it as one of the guiding principles of a professional music critic, let alone potentially the most well-known one on the internet today like Fantano. And yet, alas... (Another issue with such people is the creeping influence of poptimism, of "let people enjoy things!" culture, where Beyonce and Taylor Swift are just as meaningful as Dylan and Bowie, where Charli XCX is just as great an artist as any other).

All in all, it's a sad state of affairs, and the result is that music criticism as it used to exist is essentially dead. In its place we have people who will say anything for views and clicks, who will pan an album just to get those views. So it's not just that Fantano gave Inferno a 6 after listening to it half-heartedly while multi-multi-tasking. It's that the whole system of YouTuber music criticism is a joke, and he just happens to be the main clown.

boredoms wrote:These "music nerds" (as opposed to actual critics) seem to regard their profession as akin to Pokemon - "gotta catch 'em all." It's all about meaningless statistics, about cateloging and rating. And so all they care about is being completionists, in being able to say "yes I've listened to every single song Bob Dylan has released, and here's how I rate them all on a scale of 1 to 10!"

You see this attitude a lot browsing RYM (a very useful site but one with limitations). But you shouldn't see it as one of the guiding principles of a professional music critic, let alone potentially the most well-known one on the internet today like Fantano. And yet, alas... (Another issue with such people is the creeping influence of poptimism, of "let people enjoy things!" culture, where Beyonce and Taylor Swift are just as meaningful as Dylan and Bowie, where Charli XCX is just as great an artist as any other).

All in all, it's a sad state of affairs, and the result is that music criticism as it used to exist is essentially dead. In its place we have people who will say anything for views and clicks, who will pan an album just to get those views. So it's not just that Fantano gave Inferno a 6 after listening to it half-heartedly while multi-multi-tasking. It's that the whole system of YouTuber music criticism is a joke, and he just happens to be the main clown.

Very well put.

If such is your attitude towards music (or anything, really) I fail to grasp the point of it. It quickly degenerates into a joyless, plodding task. Uncs be flexing like that fr fr.

I wouldn't care if it was a 6 and the review included insight, well reasoned argument, or even just a fucking entertaining script. but the man is one of the most prominent critics of our time. Lazy shit. He listened toit twice, if that.

boredoms wrote:I just don't see the appeal of Fantano; he isn't a very insightful music critic at all. He doesn't have some kind of fresh angle or real-life experience that would give his takes a special edge. But is he funny? No. Is he charismatic or charming or attractive? No... So, uh, yeah, I remain baffled that there are people out there who hold his opinion in such high esteem that RYM scores will often instantly go down or up if he pans or praises a certain album. Now THAT's cult mentality stuff right there.

It's a shame; music criticism used to be a real thing. We used to have Lester Bangs, or Robert Christgau (still around admittedly but not nearly as influential), or Charles Shaar Murray or Ian MacDonald (my favorite - check out his incredible Beatles book, Revolution In the Head, if you haven't already). What the best critics often did was place a certain record or band in its proper context -- it wasn't just about the music itself, not only that anyway. There was also the sociopolitical climate, the circumstances of how/when a record was made, etc. And when it came to the music, these critics often knew their stuff -- they knew music theory, they knew basic terms like "middle eight," they were eloquent and well-studied and not just music "nerds" who sit in a room and go through an artist's discography while distractedly chatting with 100 different people on some stream. These "music nerds" (as opposed to actual critics) seem to regard their profession as akin to Pokemon - "gotta catch 'em all." It's all about meaningless statistics, about cateloging and rating. And so all they care about is being completionists, in being able to say "yes I've listened to every single song Bob Dylan has released, and here's how I rate them all on a scale of 1 to 10!"

You see this attitude a lot browsing RYM (a very useful site but one with limitations). But you shouldn't see it as one of the guiding principles of a professional music critic, let alone potentially the most well-known one on the internet today like Fantano. And yet, alas... (Another issue with such people is the creeping influence of poptimism, of "let people enjoy things!" culture, where Beyonce and Taylor Swift are just as meaningful as Dylan and Bowie, where Charli XCX is just as great an artist as any other).

All in all, it's a sad state of affairs, and the result is that music criticism as it used to exist is essentially dead. In its place we have people who will say anything for views and clicks, who will pan an album just to get those views. So it's not just that Fantano gave Inferno a 6 after listening to it half-heartedly while multi-multi-tasking. It's that the whole system of YouTuber music criticism is a joke, and he just happens to be the main clown.

Holy mother of rants, that was great to read! Nothing to add just applauding the way you expressed yourself.

boredoms wrote:These "music nerds" (as opposed to actual critics) seem to regard their profession as akin to Pokemon - "gotta catch 'em all."

Haha perfect!

Hahah, thanks -- glad someone else enjoyed my rant! I was just kind of fed up after reading that thread in the BOC subreddit about Fantano; everyone seemed to be defending this guy as some sort of legitimate critic and the closest thing to Roger Ebert in 2026... I felt like I was taking crazy pills, lol.

I'm glad to have this forum, because I find the users here generally a lot more sane and intelligent than the folks on reddit are.

Reddit exemplifies “the internet is evil, wake up.”

Den wrote:Reddit exemplifies “the internet is evil, wake up.”

For real. And a large percentage of posts and comments there are by actual bots. It is creepy, uncanny. Thankfully on a forum like this one -- however much I may disagree with a post or whatever, at least I always know it came from human hands!

Den wrote:Reddit exemplifies “the internet is evil, wake up.”

Most social media platforms do to an unsettling degree.

I've been mostly on 4chan prior and during Inferno's release. Pleased to report that for all its degeneracy and eyebrow-raising antics it remains a haven for BoC fans of diverging ages and backgrounds. Anonimity grants callous behavior as much as unbridled sincerity. One can find as thought-provoking posts as boredoms' if one looks deep enough.

Keyosc (formerly WATMM) is also fertile soil for electronic music discussion, graced by old-timers versed in the art of musicianship, a tad cheeky but with an ancient and extensive overlap with Twoism forums. Quite easy to recommend.