____twoism

Boards of Canada is my religion.

Skytree wrote:
(1) Spiritual: Sometimes I feel there is some great, unknown fabric underneath the everyday reality that we typically perceive. Our minds can only feebly perceive it, given minimal evolutionary incentive, but every once in a while, it becomes clear that there's something more complex (more divine?) going on underneath the surface.

This is a fantastic way of putting it. I tend to think of myself as an atheist because i don't believe in deities or supernatural things. But I do get the feeling that our five senses are only telling us a fraction of what is going on around us. Not ghosts or anything corny like that, but things we can't explain because we don't have the capacity to interpret it, even if we could experience it.

This is a fantastic way of putting it. I tend to think of myself as an atheist because i don't believe in deities or supernatural things. But I do get the feeling that our five senses are only telling us a fraction of what is going on around us. Not ghosts or anything corny like that, but things we can't explain because we don't have the capacity to interpret it, even if we could experience it.

There's nothing spiritual about nature and reality even if it's something we aren't capable of sensing or even comprehending.

/buzzkill

I can't be the only one who understands how threatening religion is to modern culture/science/medicine and life itself..

and the "spiritual" are most often religious enablers which is just as bad. And yes im srs!

Skytree wrote:Nudging the thread train back on track (and not to be dismissive, Cole), I would be very interested in any reactions or thoughts regarding my previous post, positive or otherwise. I've been thinking quite a bit about this subject recently. Cheers!

I think i can sympathize with you a great deal on both counts except that i'd describe my fascination with science as more of an escape into a childlike fantasy of the world that used to thrill me when i'd learn about science as a kid and think positive thoughts about it wait this post doesn't make any sense. sorry, i failed. anyway, i am tempted towards a passionate, if extremely abstract, spiritual mindset and a straightforwardly existential one - so for me not so much a "rational" (god i hate that word, and that says a lot about my philosophy of mind right there) view of the universe but a perspectivist, humanist kind of way, but not humanist like a rationalist theory-laden hierarchically structured perscribed view of human nature but humanist as in, drawing from the human experience as experienced by the thinker himself and from that perspective. my alibi is that i'm just an insane man and that is the reason i don't experience life with any meaning or will to live from an attemptedly totally rational perspective, which to me (and i was pretty good at it, in fact i was too good and i didn't like what my mind had become, i eventually saw through it to what i see as being the contrived nature of it) bears the mark of rigid artifice and some great and burning hypocrisy that i fear the emergent power of greatly

yeah so basically i'm gonna be sorry for sharing any of this i'm sure. that's what i get for writing while high and listening to Curtains by Aphex Twin.

turquoise, i hope we trip together sometime. don't know if that's your thing, but it would be nice. in need of a revolution.

s7409651 wrote: Oh, Mr Tree, I was thinking when first reading your post, that you are probably the forum member with views closest to mine.

Though tending towards your first view;
I have never been one for religion. But spirituality(and I dont mean dreamcatchers and faeries ) is very important to me.

There's a line from the film INTO THE WILD that stuck with me, when some crazy topless european floating in a river says 'The Universe is Sooooo Good'.. It's a naive sort of phrase but hell, it pretty much sums up how I think.

I believe positive energy breeds more positive energy, and the opposite. Respect of nature, of one's body, and of others is of top importance to me. I dislike drugs and alcohol. I dislike consumerism. I believe that everything happens for a reason. I don't believe one has to belong to a religious group to have religious experiences. As for premonitions, captivation by nature, and serendipidy, yes.. I feel the same way.

A lot of religion teaches people that they are powerless without (insert house of worship/leader here)
.. I believe our minds and souls are capable of incredible power.

Ah yes, I remember that specific line in Into the Wild and was similarly struck by it. Very beautiful story. I'm glad to hear you have a similar perspective. (:

Chuck Beckles wrote:

Skytree wrote:
(1) Spiritual: Sometimes I feel there is some great, unknown fabric underneath the everyday reality that we typically perceive. Our minds can only feebly perceive it, given minimal evolutionary incentive, but every once in a while, it becomes clear that there's something more complex (more divine?) going on underneath the surface.

This is a fantastic way of putting it. I tend to think of myself as an atheist because i don't believe in deities or supernatural things. But I do get the feeling that our five senses are only telling us a fraction of what is going on around us. Not ghosts or anything corny like that, but things we can't explain because we don't have the capacity to interpret it, even if we could experience it.

Thanks Chuck. This follows very well into my response to the quote below:

meat like product wrote:I can't be the only one who understands how threatening religion is to modern culture/science/medicine and life itself..

and the "spiritual" are most often religious enablers which is just as bad. And yes im srs!

I suppose thoughts regarding spirituality depend on your definition, so I respect your sentiments.

My definition of spirituality revolves around accepting ones place in the cosmos; the recognition of something greater beyond your own existence, or more accurately, the recognition that there is no "you", as that self-ness depends on the greater constructs and interactions of a reality that extends outwards indefinitely, in many ways beyond our perception.

I think the above is absolutely essential to maintaining a healthy attitude in my life. Perhaps you have found an alternative. However, I caution against any statements that largely characterize a separate group or perspective as inherently dangerous or foolhardy. If anything is truly dangerous or foolhardy, I'd wager that's it. Cole's quote below (sorry if I parsed it down to much) demonstrates this well, I think.

turquoise70 wrote:that is the reason i don't experience life with any meaning or will to live from an attemptedly totally rational perspective, which to me (and i was pretty good at it, in fact i was too good and i didn't like what my mind had become, i eventually saw through it to what i see as being the contrived nature of it) bears the mark of rigid artifice and some great and burning hypocrisy

In other words (hope I'm interpreting this right, man), until we know all there is to know of this universe (which may very well never happen), pure rationality is not possible. Within an incomplete picture, complete certainty of rational, deterministic thinking is hypocritical, and when it comes down to it, irrational. Inclusive open-mindedness is a fine solution.

To sum up: Spirituality, in my mind, is the acceptance and appreciation of the unknown within the known, and the sense of awe, perspective and identity it creates. It isn't something to avoid or erase...it's a natural human need to find equilibrium within the consciousness we possess, which is both astoundingly intricate and sadly limited.

I'm an agnostic living in a shitty community full of stubborn, ignorant, thick brained christians. I'm so tired of it! Plus, as usual, there are about 7 churches in our small town, and they're always competing too. There's even one that I predict will be a cult in about 3 years or so. These people walk around in groups and have church like every night! Plus, I used to go there as a kid and they teach fucked up, wrong things. They charge for getting baptised, and they teach all the poor souls that you won't go to heaven if your not baptised. Luckly, I have good parents who pulled me out of the thick cloud called Christianity, so I can take a breath of clean air and relate to things the way I want to.

Synthestesia wrote:I'm an agnostic living in a shitty community full of stubborn, ignorant, thick brained christians. I'm so tired of it! Plus, as usual, there are about 7 churches in our small town, and they're always competing too. There's even one that I predict will be a cult in about 3 years or so. These people walk around in groups and have church like every night! Plus, I used to go there as a kid and they teach fucked up, wrong things. They charge for getting baptised, and they teach all the poor souls that you won't go to heaven if your not baptised. Luckly, I have good parents who pulled me out of the thick cloud called Christianity, so I can take a breath of clean air and relate to things the way I want to.

holy shit, this sounds exactly like where I live

(parenthesis) wrote:

Synthestesia wrote:I'm an agnostic living in a shitty community full of stubborn, ignorant, thick brained christians. I'm so tired of it! Plus, as usual, there are about 7 churches in our small town, and they're always competing too. There's even one that I predict will be a cult in about 3 years or so. These people walk around in groups and have church like every night! Plus, I used to go there as a kid and they teach fucked up, wrong things. They charge for getting baptised, and they teach all the poor souls that you won't go to heaven if your not baptised. Luckly, I have good parents who pulled me out of the thick cloud called Christianity, so I can take a breath of clean air and relate to things the way I want to.

holy shit, this sounds exactly like where I live

Sad, huh. Just wait untill Christians will rule the world! Oh, wait, THEY ALREADY DO!!!

meat like product wrote:I can't be the only one who understands how threatening religion is to modern culture/science/medicine and life itself..

and the "spiritual" are most often religious enablers which is just as bad. And yes im srs!

Well, I agree with this too actually. So much knowledge is suppressed as to not hurt the religious fruitbats' feelings. But I guess a sense of wonderment has got to be more refreshing than a cold, clinical viewpoint all the time.

Synthestesia wrote:

(parenthesis) wrote:

Synthestesia wrote:I'm an agnostic living in a shitty community full of stubborn, ignorant, thick brained christians. I'm so tired of it! Plus, as usual, there are about 7 churches in our small town, and they're always competing too. There's even one that I predict will be a cult in about 3 years or so. These people walk around in groups and have church like every night! Plus, I used to go there as a kid and they teach fucked up, wrong things. They charge for getting baptised, and they teach all the poor souls that you won't go to heaven if your not baptised. Luckly, I have good parents who pulled me out of the thick cloud called Christianity, so I can take a breath of clean air and relate to things the way I want to.

holy shit, this sounds exactly like where I live

Sad, huh. Just wait untill Christians will rule the world! Oh, wait, THEY ALREADY DO!!!

Yeah this one church has totally brainwashed like 80% of the people in my town. BUT THEY'LL NEVER GET ME

(parenthesis) wrote: Yeah this one church has totally brainwashed like 80% of the people in my town. BUT THEY'LL NEVER GET ME

..The worst is when your friends/classmates start going uber-religious and suddenly you find yourself in the minority... I already have people that say they 'pray' for me.

You have to start being careful of what you say in company. It sucks.

Its nearly impossible to remove someone's security blanket when thats all they've known since childhood.

Synthestesia wrote:

(parenthesis) wrote:

Synthestesia wrote:I'm an agnostic living in a shitty community full of stubborn, ignorant, thick brained christians. I'm so tired of it! Plus, as usual, there are about 7 churches in our small town, and they're always competing too. There's even one that I predict will be a cult in about 3 years or so. These people walk around in groups and have church like every night! Plus, I used to go there as a kid and they teach fucked up, wrong things. They charge for getting baptised, and they teach all the poor souls that you won't go to heaven if your not baptised. Luckly, I have good parents who pulled me out of the thick cloud called Christianity, so I can take a breath of clean air and relate to things the way I want to.

holy shit, this sounds exactly like where I live

Sad, huh. Just wait untill Christians will rule the world! Oh, wait, THEY ALREADY DO!!!

Ah come on man. Your experience isn't common christianity. Your experience changed your perspective, and made it subjective. I think what you wright here is the wrong way to approach it. Do you think you are better than them? Dig deep inside, cause you really sound like that. The right way is to approach with compassion. These people are lost, no more, no less. You're not better, not even a little. What happend with you is sad indeed. But most christians aren't like that.

It would be the same like if I had a bad agnostic experience, and copied to all people who are agnostic. That's not fair, and insulting.

Earthbound wrote:

Synthestesia wrote:

(parenthesis) wrote: holy shit, this sounds exactly like where I live

Sad, huh. Just wait untill Christians will rule the world! Oh, wait, THEY ALREADY DO!!!

Ah come on man. Your experience isn't common christianity. Your experience changed your perspective, and made it subjective. I think what you wright here is the wrong way to approach it. Do you think you are better than them? Dig deep inside, cause you really sound like that. The right way is to approach with compassion. These people are lost, no more, no less. You're not better, not even a little. What happend with you is sad indeed. But most christians aren't like that.

It would be the same like if I had a bad agnostic experience, and copied to all people who are agnostic. That's not fair, and insulting.

I never tried to say I was better, I just lost some good friends to things like that. Friends who once had unique perspectives like me. Sorry If I came out selfish. I'm still maturing.

s7409651 wrote:There's a line from the film INTO THE WILD that stuck with me, when some crazy topless european floating in a river says 'The Universe is Sooooo Good'.. It's a naive sort of phrase but hell, it pretty much sums up how I think.

Skytree wrote: Ah yes, I remember that specific line in Into the Wild and was similarly struck by it. Very beautiful story. I'm glad to hear you have a similar perspective. (:

I actually just started reading the book, saw the film while ago and yeah, very beautiful story indeed!

I enjoy reading through this thread, theres a lot of excellent discussion taking place - along with some on the negative side.. but thats just normal when such a sensitive subject is in focus.

We're all in this together, so I feel we should make the best of it.

My understanding and perceptions are still changing, I can't settle on a single explanation for existence.. Theres just too much that we don't know to lead to any sort of conclusion.

So we spend our days talking about it, wondering about it.. Which is exactly what is happening right here in this thread. I just wish I could converse with others about it in person, not seriously or adamently. Even turning that into music is just as gratifying to me.

Imagination is what is important to me, along with what I can percieve in the now. I don't want to have a future set in stone, I want this series of unexplainable circumstances to keep going as long as possible.

88marquis wrote: I don't want to have a future set in stone, I want this series of unexplainable circumstances to keep going as long as possible.

I like this

Synthestesia wrote:

Earthbound wrote:

Synthestesia wrote: Sad, huh. Just wait untill Christians will rule the world! Oh, wait, THEY ALREADY DO!!!

Ah come on man. Your experience isn't common christianity. Your experience changed your perspective, and made it subjective. I think what you wright here is the wrong way to approach it. Do you think you are better than them? Dig deep inside, cause you really sound like that. The right way is to approach with compassion. These people are lost, no more, no less. You're not better, not even a little. What happend with you is sad indeed. But most christians aren't like that.

It would be the same like if I had a bad agnostic experience, and copied to all people who are agnostic. That's not fair, and insulting.

I never tried to say I was better, I just lost some good friends to things like that. Friends who once had unique perspectives like me. Sorry If I came out selfish. I'm still maturing.

Well, not wanting to sound harsh, but I do think that when you say this, that you think your perspective is better, or the right one. The fact that you don't understand theirs, doesn't make it less or inferior. I understand the way you think, and it's coming from a good hart. But think about this: everybody has values, and unconsious think this is the right way to life ('cause hey, why did you chose or believe in these values anyway). I think it's interesting to let go of this approach, and get interested in why people have other beliefs and values.

I have my own beliefs rooted by many things, which I will not go into. But I will say...

This shouldn't be about Christian, or Atheist, or Agnostic, or any of that. Why cant people believe what they want to without someone else judging them to be totally ignorant if they don't believe like them. If the Christian, or Atheist or whoever truly had the answer and actually cared about the other people, wouldn't it make sense to LOVE them, SHOWING them what it is that makes the difference instead of tearing them down because of what they believe?

Just a thought.