Change on Boards' Website

[Valotonin]

Random Observation: Did anyone notice the cover of TCH on the bleep website is more damaged than the original cover? When you click it it reverts back to the original cover. I wonder if it's a clue...

I assumed it was just more saturated on the link as hi-scores also seems to be a deeper blue than when the link is followed. You may well be right though. It could actually be a more decayed image in which case there is something to look out for there.

[drillkicker]

Random Observation: Did anyone notice the cover of TCH on the bleep website is more damaged than the original cover? When you click it it reverts back to the original cover. I wonder if it's a clue...

It loaded the original cover for me there, and then it changed to the brighter version once the page was loaded. It doesn't seem like a clue since it's the same as on the Bleep URL for the page, but it's an interesting observation.

[Negamuse]

Nothing means anything

[Techboy]

it's a progressively loading jpg guys just to throw some more sand on your fire

[Valotonin]

it's a progressively loading jpg guys just to throw some more sand on your fire

Interesting. Why does the link picture stay compressed?
I assume you know more about this kinda thing.
Link pic: https://d1rgjmn2wmqeif.cloudfront.net/r/l/11672.jpg

[vanlorne]

This "less than 4 years" thing confuses me. It was 3 years, 10 months between MHTRTC and Geogaddi, and it was 3 years, 8 months between Geogaddi and TCH. So unless you think those extra 2 months make some critical difference (FWIW I don't at all; whether I prefer Geo or TCH changes quite often, though right now it's TCH), then this argument doesn't really make sense, especially when you consider there were two EPs (Peel Session and IABPOITC) between MHTRTC and Geo but nothing between Geo and TCH.

Great artists always have a period of their career where the output flows and almost everything is gold, and it seems effortless (even though we know it isn't!) I think they were in that type of zone from 1995-2002 and all of that material feels like it belongs together, always building on what came before. It's all of one universe, if that makes sense. You reach a point where creating becomes more challenging as time goes on, expectations in the back of your mind and not wanting to repeat yourself.

IABPOITC is cut from the same material they wrote and recorded for Geogaddi. It was interesting to see that they were audacious enough to pull a 180 midway through, working on things that had a sound like Spiro and XYZ closer to the time of MHTRTC and then completely abandoning that approach midway. They've talked about how some aspects of their sound from 1995-1998 were a compromise of sorts, and it seemed like they were initially moving even further in that "compromise" direction at first.

With TCH, they went out of their way to break away from the corner they (and we) had put them in. Geogaddi was the summation of this period of creativity and then they decided to figure out a way to make a BoC album without many of the tropes that they'd come to rely on. I think TCH sounds both over and under produced, I think the success of Geogaddi got to them and it just sounds like they tried too hard. I'm glad that they challenged themselves, they had to really.

I'm glad that some people enjoy it, it's really a testament to the quality of their work that different people can have clear favorites or least favorites. It's still better than 95% of the stuff out there. I'd just like them to shelve the idea of having to patiently wait until an hour or so of material comes together that seems to belong together in their minds. I just want more instincts, no fear of slapping together something like a MHTRTC or an OT tape that plays well but isn't necessarily beholden to a particular set of rules. I think they would be more prolific if they weren't perfectionists on that front, my favorites of theirs tend to be a mishmash of moods and sounds that isn't taking itself too seriously.

tl;dr, it might be a 2 month difference, but Geogaddi just felt like it had way more time to develop, probably because they weren't trying to reinvent themselves, it was a natural progression from MHTRTC, some of which we can only hear on live tapes.

Why have you avoided addressing the then 8 year gap between TCH and TH, seeing as how you were the one stressing time between albums.

[Skimming Stone]

I think they would be more prolific if they weren't perfectionists on that front, my favorites of theirs tend to be a mishmash of moods and sounds that isn't taking itself too seriously.

I can completely agree with this. The start of their career certainly had a more relaxed feel to it in terms of general themes within their albums/tapes. It makes perfect sense for them to want to mature and outdo themselves, and one of the ways they must see that being possible is to create a very cohesive album with a consistent concept. Not to say that's a bad thing by any means, it just isn't my preferred style for them. I go to BoC for their ability to create endless amounts of interesting melodies and moods, and less for their cohesive album structures, which is most likely why I listen to their Old Tunes from start to finish more than any other release

[breadmaker]

Great artists always have a period of their career where the output flows and almost everything is gold, and it seems effortless (even though we know it isn't!) I think they were in that type of zone from 1995-2002 and all of that material feels like it belongs together, always building on what came before. It's all of one universe, if that makes sense. You reach a point where creating becomes more challenging as time goes on, expectations in the back of your mind and not wanting to repeat yourself.

IABPOITC is cut from the same material they wrote and recorded for Geogaddi. It was interesting to see that they were audacious enough to pull a 180 midway through, working on things that had a sound like Spiro and XYZ closer to the time of MHTRTC and then completely abandoning that approach midway. They've talked about how some aspects of their sound from 1995-1998 were a compromise of sorts, and it seemed like they were initially moving even further in that "compromise" direction at first.

With TCH, they went out of their way to break away from the corner they (and we) had put them in. Geogaddi was the summation of this period of creativity and then they decided to figure out a way to make a BoC album without many of the tropes that they'd come to rely on. I think TCH sounds both over and under produced, I think the success of Geogaddi got to them and it just sounds like they tried too hard. I'm glad that they challenged themselves, they had to really.

I'm glad that some people enjoy it, it's really a testament to the quality of their work that different people can have clear favorites or least favorites. It's still better than 95% of the stuff out there. I'd just like them to shelve the idea of having to patiently wait until an hour or so of material comes together that seems to belong together in their minds. I just want more instincts, no fear of slapping together something like a MHTRTC or an OT tape that plays well but isn't necessarily beholden to a particular set of rules. I think they would be more prolific if they weren't perfectionists on that front, my favorites of theirs tend to be a mishmash of moods and sounds that isn't taking itself too seriously.

tl;dr, it might be a 2 month difference, but Geogaddi just felt like it had way more time to develop, probably because they weren't trying to reinvent themselves, it was a natural progression from MHTRTC, some of which we can only hear on live tapes.

A note on the "Beautiful Place" EP - I believe that "Kid for Today" actually dates from the "Music has the right" era, and was (I think I read somewhere) considered for that album at some point. I also recall an early version appearing on a Boc Maxima cassette (as an untitled bonus track, I think. Can't be bothered to fact check this but the info is there somewhere.) That EP, to me, seems very much like the last hurrah of their early work before moving into the more textured & layered "Geogaddi" and beyond sound. The difference between the two aesthetics is best illustrated by comparing the bold & minimal ATP live version of "Julie and Candy" to the more cluttered version that would later appear on "Geogaddi."

I do recall reading somewhere that they considered some the later 1990s stuff to be the result of compromise, though I would argue that this compromise obviously worked in their favor. The vast majority of my favorite tracks of theirs are from this period.

That effortless, 1995 - 2002 golden era you speak of I've always compared to Stanley Kubrick's late 60s to early 70s period, with "2001" and "Clockwork Orange" analogous to "Music" and "Geogaddi" respectively. Which makes "Campfire" on par with "Barry Lyndon" (since both are a bit misunderstood & wrongly considered lesser works due to a more subtle employment of their signature style.) And of course this makes "Tomorrow's Harvest" BOC's "The Shining" which is pretty appropriate I think.

[Opothecary]

Why have you avoided addressing the then 8 year gap between TCH and TH, seeing as how you were the one stressing time between albums.

What about it? I'd rather wait another 8 years and get an album on par with TH instead of 3 1/2 years like TCH. It seems like we're looking at 5-8 years to get a quality album out of them that they're happy with these days in terms of cohesiveness and so on. Even if TCH was your favorite album, no artist at this point in their career is going to turn around that same album faster than they would have 10 years ago.

The greedy part of me would love a new album tomorrow, the realistic part of me knows it could be better in the long run if they take their time to do what they do and get it just right. I think they would mitigate the constant cycle of fakes and grumbling if they spaced a reissue of some unheard music in between each proper release, no one would care if it took 5 or 6 years to get a fully formed new album if they had something to enjoy inbetween.

I know that isn't how they work and probably never will but it's nice to dream.

[Jango9]

The difference between the two aesthetics is best illustrated by comparing the bold & minimal ATP live version of "Julie and Candy" to the more cluttered version that would later appear on "Geogaddi."

The ATP set is interesting because it provides a brief insight into what Geogaddi might have sounded like had 9/11 not happened and had such a large influence on the final cut. After all, they played IABPOITC almost in its entirety at 2 different shows prior to its release. I also recall hearing someone mention that the original theme of Geogaddi was going to be something along the lines of a submarine journey, which makes a lot of sense if you listen to the ATP set with that in mind.

[vanlorne]

Why have you avoided addressing the then 8 year gap between TCH and TH, seeing as how you were the one stressing time between albums.

What about it? I'd rather wait another 8 years and get an album on par with TH instead of 3 1/2 years like TCH. It seems like we're looking at 5-8 years to get a quality album out of them that they're happy with these days in terms of cohesiveness and so on. Even if TCH was your favorite album, no artist at this point in their career is going to turn around that same album faster than they would have 10 years ago.

The greedy part of me would love a new album tomorrow, the realistic part of me knows it could be better in the long run if they take their time to do what they do and get it just right. I think they would mitigate the constant cycle of fakes and grumbling if they spaced a reissue of some unheard music in between each proper release, no one would care if it took 5 or 6 years to get a fully formed new album if they had something to enjoy inbetween.

I know that isn't how they work and probably never will but it's nice to dream.

I was just trying to gauge where you placed the work from TH compared to everything else (since you didnt include it when talking about all the other work earlier) given that it was the longest between albums

[Opothecary]

A note on the "Beautiful Place" EP - I believe that "Kid for Today" actually dates from the "Music has the right" era, and was (I think I read somewhere) considered for that album at some point. I also recall an early version appearing on a Boc Maxima cassette (as an untitled bonus track, I think. Can't be bothered to fact check this but the info is there somewhere.) That EP, to me, seems very much like the last hurrah of their early work before moving into the more textured & layered "Geogaddi" and beyond sound. The difference between the two aesthetics is best illustrated by comparing the bold & minimal ATP live version of "Julie and Candy" to the more cluttered version that would later appear on "Geogaddi."

I remember seeing that scan of the Maxima artwork, I had to go check it again, for some reason I was thinking that they had included it on the tape after MHTRTC was released instead of slightly before. If I remember right that was a copy of Maxima they had made for one of their relatives that someone from Twoism knew.

I do recall reading somewhere that they considered some the later 1990s stuff to be the result of compromise, though I would argue that this compromise obviously worked in their favor. The vast majority of my favorite tracks of theirs are from this period.

I agree 100%, the Peel Sessions and live shows are a nice tease of what could have been. I think at that point they could have done no wrong, I love Geogaddi as it stands too. I think of things like Telephasic Workshop, Spiro, XYZ, Chinook and Track 7 from Warp10 in particular as music that may not have turned out the way it did if it wasn't expected of them. By the time we get to ATP its very Geogaddi-ish in terms of song selection and how its played, aside from maybe "Noatak". All great stuff.

That effortless, 1995 - 2002 golden era you speak of I've always compared to Stanley Kubrick's late 60s to early 70s period, with "2001" and "Clockwork Orange" analogous to "Music" and "Geogaddi" respectively. Which makes "Campfire" on par with "Barry Lyndon" (since both are a bit misunderstood & wrongly considered lesser works due to a more subtle employment of their signature style.) And of course this makes "Tomorrow's Harvest" BOC's "The Shining" which is pretty appropriate I think.

Kubrick is a good comparison, what do you think their Full Metal Jacket album will be like?

[breadmaker]

The ATP set is interesting because it provides a brief insight into what Geogaddi might have sounded like had 9/11 not happened and had such a large influence on the final cut. After all, they played IABPOITC almost in its entirety at 2 different shows prior to its release. I also recall hearing someone mention that the original theme of Geogaddi was going to be something along the lines of a submarine journey, which makes a lot of sense if you listen to the ATP set with that in mind.

well this is going off topic now, but I'd totally forgotten about the 9/11 influence on Geogaddi. Odd, though, since to my ears anyway the live ATP version of "Julie" sounds darker and more sinister than the comparatively sunny album version . . .

[breadmaker]

I agree 100%, the Peel Sessions and live shows are a nice tease of what could have been. I think at that point they could have done no wrong, I love Geogaddi as it stands too. I think of things like Telephasic Workshop, Spiro, XYZ, Chinook and Track 7 from Warp10 in particular as music that may not have turned out the way it did if it wasn't expected of them. By the time we get to ATP its very Geogaddi-ish in terms of song selection and how its played, aside from maybe "Noatak". All great stuff.

I would include "Orange Romeda" in there as well. I just rediscovered that one recently and after having been submerged in "Tomorrow's Harvest" for the last few years it's quite startling to hear that absolutely fierce and idiosyncratic drum loop and decisive, crystal clear, mind-melting melodies. It sounds like music that's been beamed in from another planet, and it almost feels like a different band to what we have today, in some ways. I feel like they've gone from allowing the listener to luxuriate in pleasure ("Sixtyniner," "Everything you do is a balloon") in the mid-90s to what we have now, which is almost a sly denial of pleasure, or at least a subversion of it (ie - the fleeting climax of "Reach for the Dead.") Autechre have followed a similar path, for better or for worse. I wouldn't say its an indication that they're losing their edge, for there's certainly enough magic on "Harvest" to derail that theory - it's more like another facet of a band with many different sides. I don't believe we've seen the last of the "give the people what they want for 7 minutes" version of BOC.

Kubrick is a good comparison, what do you think their Full Metal Jacket album will be like?

well I've never been a fan of the "fantasy/speculation" moments on this forum but since you asked, it would be equal parts "Jacquard Causeway" "Semena Mertvykh" "M9" and "Sixtyten."

[zeoevil]

For what it its worth, I've never believed Harvest took the band eight years at all. Three to five years tops. I've always believed they started work on it sometime around 2010 after they finished the new studio they spoke about in interviews.

[drillkicker]

For what it its worth, I've never believed Harvest took the band eight years at all. Three to five years tops. I've always believed they started work on it sometime around 2010 after they finished the new studio they spoke about in interviews.

But they said that they started it right after TCH was finished. I think they took a long break in the creation of the album, though.

[zeoevil]

For what it its worth, I've never believed Harvest took the band eight years at all. Three to five years tops. I've always believed they started work on it sometime around 2010 after they finished the new studio they spoke about in interviews.

But they said that they started it right after TCH was finished. I think they took a long break in the creation of the album, though.

In my opinion, a break long enough to effectively have to start over from scratch. It is unlikely the creative juices that spark an idea will be wholly present in the same form after a break that long.

[d e n]

I agree 100%, the Peel Sessions and live shows are a nice tease of what could have been. I think at that point they could have done no wrong, I love Geogaddi as it stands too. I think of things like Telephasic Workshop, Spiro, XYZ, Chinook and Track 7 from Warp10 in particular as music that may not have turned out the way it did if it wasn't expected of them. By the time we get to ATP its very Geogaddi-ish in terms of song selection and how its played, aside from maybe "Noatak". All great stuff.[/quote
I would include "Orange Romeda" in there as well. I just rediscovered that one recently and after having been submerged in "Tomorrow's Harvest" for the last few years it's quite startling to hear that absolutely fierce and idiosyncratic drum loop and decisive, crystal clear, mind-melting melodies. It sounds like music that's been beamed in from another planet, and it almost feels like a different band to what we have today, in some ways. I feel like they've gone from allowing the listener to luxuriate in pleasure ("Sixtyniner," "Everything you do is a balloon") in the mid-90s to what we have now, which is almost a sly denial of pleasure, or at least a subversion of it (ie - the fleeting climax of "Reach for the Dead.") Autechre have followed a similar path, for better or for worse. I wouldn't say its an indication that they're losing their edge, for there's certainly enough magic on "Harvest" to derail that theory - it's more like another facet of a band with many different sides. I don't believe we've seen the last of the "give the people what they want for 7 minutes" version of BOC.

Kubrick is a good comparison, what do you think their Full Metal Jacket album will be like?

well I've never been a fan of the "fantasy/speculation" moments on this forum but since you asked, it would be equal parts "Jacquard Causeway" "Semena Mertvykh" "M9" and "Sixtyten."

re the answer to apothecary... really well said.

Orange Romeda always gives me a smile that rips my face open... the drums sound like a living breathing thing.

[mr3]

I'm glad that some people enjoy it, it's really a testament to the quality of their work that different people can have clear favorites or least favorites. It's still better than 95% of the stuff out there. I'd just like them to shelve the idea of having to patiently wait until an hour or so of material comes together that seems to belong together in their minds. I just want more instincts, no fear of slapping together something like a MHTRTC or an OT tape that plays well but isn't necessarily beholden to a particular set of rules. I think they would be more prolific if they weren't perfectionists on that front, my favorites of theirs tend to be a mishmash of moods and sounds that isn't taking itself too seriously.

The 'fear' angle has actually been the biggest issue for me. Over the years it's been hard to separate the natural influence of personal change on their art from what I've hoped isn't a steady increase of analysis having a stifling effect. Sometimes I wonder what they fear. Not tapping into a particular sound? Not tapping in enough to reach a place that seems just out of touch? Being influenced by anything they don't want to be influenced by? Not sounding like X from the past? Not steadily improving? Etc. My favorite work from them has this "this is us and we are free" vibe, and yes a lot of it is tape stuff. The free nature of it has the power to transport me unlike anything else they've done. It's just so hard to tell what part fear plays in more recent things when I realize they could be practically paralyzed by it for argument's sake and their talent can still manage something like TH. I'm fine with just accepting it all as it is, it's just the possibility of foregone exploration/expression that would be a major downer.

[chronical]

Maybe this weekend?