____twoism

I don't think TH is a "reaction" to how some people felt about TCH especially the guitars. They come up with a concept, ans eventually come up with enough music that hangs well together and then they release it. I'm sure their next album will be quite different than TH, and not because of people cryinf about arpeggios.

I'm not that interested in hearing the EP, as I'd rather hear a project by an artist in it's entirety. Remixes are one thing, changing the concept of their artistic vision is another. This is just my personal opinion/taste in regards to the "playlist culture" we've become accustomed to and is nothing against Rodheh's production, so please do not use this paragraph out of it's intended context.

That being said, Tomorrow's Harvest is their best engineered (I'm still wowed by it, as I consistently praise them for), one of their best conceptually, but is quite the difficult listen, isn't it? It's solid material all over, but there's a lot of soundtrack oriented ambience that, I feel, like this EP looks like it's done, could've been condensed down.

Regardless, this is just my little bit regarding Tomorrow's Harvest after a few million listens and understanding of this EP.

A bit unrelated: I don't see too much hate in these parts for The Campfire Headphase. I quite like the guitars as well. There aren't mistakes, just artistic vision.

2020k wrote:...so please do not use this paragraph out of it's intended context.

But you know he will.

2020k wrote:I don't see too much hate in these parts for The Campfire Headphase. I quite like the guitars as well. There aren't mistakes, just artistic vision.

I'm with you. By far, my favorite album by BoC.

its just that with TCH they lost what made them special, they got bland. Lost their melodies, their edge, their interesting-ness.

And Tomorrow's Harvest ain't that much of a step forward. It's a step in the right direction but it's more or less baby steps with these guys.

The Telepathic Kid wrote:its just that with TCH they lost what made them special, they got bland. Lost their melodies, their edge, their interesting-ness.

And Tomorrow's Harvest ain't that much of a step forward. It's a step in the right direction but it's more or less baby steps with these guys.

In your opinion. I think completely the opposite on both your points.

The Telepathic Kid wrote:its just that with TCH they lost what made them special, they got bland. Lost their melodies, their edge, their interesting-ness.

And Tomorrow's Harvest ain't that much of a step forward. It's a step in the right direction but it's more or less baby steps with these guys.

What made them special (I take this to mean unique)? If anything, TCH moved them further away from conventional electronic music. I like MHTRTC and Geogaddi as much as anyone else but they're not that much different from stuff Autechre, Aphex, etc. were doing much earlier, at least in terms of form and sound. TCH was, and still mostly is, uncharted territory.

GeogEddie wrote:If anything, TCH moved them further away from conventional electronic music. I like MHTRTC and Geogaddi as much as anyone else but they're not that much different from stuff Autechre, Aphex, etc. were doing much earlier, at least in terms of form and sound. TCH was, and still mostly is, uncharted territory.

Couldn't agree more. Very well put.

Stickyfingers72 wrote:

The Telepathic Kid wrote:its just that with TCH they lost what made them special, they got bland. Lost their melodies, their edge, their interesting-ness.

And Tomorrow's Harvest ain't that much of a step forward. It's a step in the right direction but it's more or less baby steps with these guys.

In your opinion. I think completely the opposite on both your points.

I love TCH. It is undeniably different from the two previous official albums, particularly Geogaddi, but I think it shares a lot of things with MHTRTC (Constants Are Changing and Farewell Fire I find to be in a similar vein to Olson) and some of their older stuff.

It's more dreamy, beat-driven and (obviously) guitar-oriented than Geogaddi and MHTRTC, but then there's a couple of tracks off Random 35 Tracks Tape that are a bit like that, such as Audiotrack 10a and Audiotrack 04b.

I'm not going to change anyone's opinion - nor would I want to, but I really don't think it's bland at all. Perhaps a little more musically accessible to a non-hardcore BoC fan, but undoubtedly still them.

Tomorrow's Harvest has taken me some time to appreciate, but I think that was always going to be the case given the wait and the build up. I absolutely love the darker elements such as Semena Mertvykh, Reach For The Dead and Telepath.

Nothing Is Real harks back to the 'nostalgia-inducing' work such as Roygbiv, while there's been much made of New Seeds similarity to Audiotrack 14a (one of my faves off Random35, even though it's more like 'dark disco' than anything else they've done that I can think of).

I personally think they probably have a huge database of tunes, half-tunes, loops, ideas and pads that they've dipped into over the years, and what they put together into an album reflects either a concept or how they're feeling at the time.

Honestly, I think the importance of the use of guitars in Headphase is completely blown out of proportion. I don't think that's what really makes the difference in the record, and even if it did, well, the mingling of electronic and acoustic instruments is as old as electronic music itself. While you had guys like Kraftwerk at one end of the spectrum, you always had the likes of Vangelis at the other, constantly blurring all the lines. To me, the thing that truly marks the album is that they diluted their atmosphere, probably in a conscious attempt of fleeing from the labelling and pigeonholing. They are forcing their way into something that they can't very properly define. They can't really flesh out this approach into something coherent, which is the opposite of Tomorrow's Harvest. Listening to the new album, I can't help but feel that they know exactly where they are and where they want to go. I don't get that with The Campfire Headphase; it starts somewhere and ends nowhere.

Boards are one of the few acts that are versatile enough to approach each album with a different concept and application. Of course they have a signature sound but an organic versatility that gives them options and contrasting sounds from Geogadi to The Campfire Headphase and Tomorrow's Harvest.

This versatility is possibly a factor why BOC are still producing and feel inspired still to produce new material whilst others from the past with a less versatile sound are only able to create what they have done before which must be quite uninspiring from a musical and artistic level.

I've not heard cutting edge music for a long time. It's hard to stand out nowadays.. I've been lucky enough to listen from the beginning of electronic music and see it develop and mature. From acts like Eno, kraftwerk to Arthur Baker, hip hop to house and all the genres since.

It's all been done before. Electronic music is the last chapter in music.

I think also TCH is hugely underrated by many on here and is a sign of what the Sandison brothers will be in the future. A nice balance of conventional and electronic music.

Imagine a future BOC album with moody/heavy guitar compositions, live drums and dark synthscapes and melodies. Yes it's been done before but I want to hear it.

I'll admit it was uncharted territory when you step back and look at it.

But for my ears, it sounds safe. It sounds not that interesting. I know it's going for an aesthetic, and funnily enough my least favourite on the album is the track where they do try to bring that creepy uneasy feel of their previous work (Slow This Bird Down).

For me I think it's how in most of the tracks there's a lack of uneasiness and subtle darkness. And to me a lot of the tracks lack strong melodic leads, but they were headed that way since Geogaddi. Only thing that actually affected me melodically was 84 Pontiac Dream.
That section 1:16-1:34 is seriously one of the best melodies the brothers have put to tape.

One the subject of what made them so unique before, it was that they had a sense of constant (I hate using this word so much in this post) uneasiness. Like darkness was lurking underneath. That and their production methods, they sounded so... I don't want to say vintage because their records really have a place outside of time.

I'm not saying that originality is key for a band to sound good (infact that idea about moody guitars and live drums sounds awesome), its just that BoC had a sound, and I felt they got away from it.

Also the whole acoustic/electronics thing has been done since.

2020k wrote:I'm not that interested in hearing the EP, as I'd rather hear a project by an artist in it's entirety. Remixes are one thing, changing the concept of their artistic vision is another. This is just my personal opinion/taste in regards to the "playlist culture" we've become accustomed to and is nothing against Rodheh's production, so please do not use this paragraph out of it's intended context.

This, as fans, we should have enough respect to not play god with their work. I think it's okay to be critical, but my criticism pretty much boils down to me not listening to things I don't like as often as things I do like. It seems somehow disrespectful to whip up separate artwork and cherry pick a handful of songs that you like and put it out on the internet. Your 5 favorite songs might be different from someone else's, or someone might love 15 songs from the album.

Opothecary wrote:vocal minority that didn't enjoy TH

I take it you've never been to /mu/.

I have let go - this EP was my letting go.

GeogEddie wrote:

Opothecary wrote:it's time to move on with your life and let go OP - you're just in a vocal minority that didn't enjoy TH. That's okay, I was like that with TCH too. Maybe their next one will be more to your liking.

Hardly seems like a minority that didn't like TCH, at least on this forum. All I ever see is constant negativity about it, mostly because BoC had the temerity to use real guitars for once (a "mistake" they've rectified with TH).

TCH is a fine album. A solid 7.5/10. It's no Geogaddi but it's a good effort from BoC. Geogaddi was a hard act to follow. TCH still retains the attention to detail and striking features that their previous works had (that TH doesn't have).

See, I understand how to recognize when an artist puts out an album that's not as good as what they've done before but is still good.

Nine Inch Nails did that just this year with Hesitation Marks - is it any fucking Downward Spiral? No, but it was still good. I'd give it an 8.3. It was really varied in sound, it wasn't extremely repetitive, and it was interesting. Tomorrow's Harvest was none of these things for me, it was repetitive, it was largely uninteresting, it contained a bunch of filler tracks that lacked what made BoC special in the first place, and as a whole the way they shipped it out, it's a poor album. It's not awful, but it's a 4/10. I had previously said 6/10 but the hype wore off. I can accept that Tomorrow's Harvest is bad and it doesn't make Geogaddi not a 9.9 still for me, because it wasn't a sin against mankind like Daft Punk's Random Access Memories.

/opinions

2020k wrote:I'm not that interested in hearing the EP, as I'd rather hear a project by an artist in it's entirety. Remixes are one thing, changing the concept of their artistic vision is another. This is just my personal opinion/taste in regards to the "playlist culture" we've become accustomed to and is nothing against Rodheh's production, so please do not use this paragraph out of it's intended context.

That being said, Tomorrow's Harvest is their best engineered (I'm still wowed by it, as I consistently praise them for), one of their best conceptually, but is quite the difficult listen, isn't it? It's solid material all over, but there's a lot of soundtrack oriented ambience that, I feel, like this EP looks like it's done, could've been condensed down.

Regardless, this is just my little bit regarding Tomorrow's Harvest after a few million listens and understanding of this EP.

A bit unrelated: I don't see too much hate in these parts for The Campfire Headphase. I quite like the guitars as well. There aren't mistakes, just artistic vision.

This is not really much different than collection of remixes. It's a fan work.

And I agree. It could have been condensed. There was a lot of filler.

Opothecary wrote:

2020k wrote:I'm not that interested in hearing the EP, as I'd rather hear a project by an artist in it's entirety. Remixes are one thing, changing the concept of their artistic vision is another. This is just my personal opinion/taste in regards to the "playlist culture" we've become accustomed to and is nothing against Rodheh's production, so please do not use this paragraph out of it's intended context.

This, as fans, we should have enough respect to not play god with their work. I think it's okay to be critical, but my criticism pretty much boils down to me not listening to things I don't like as often as things I do like. It seems somehow disrespectful to whip up separate artwork and cherry pick a handful of songs that you like and put it out on the internet. Your 5 favorite songs might be different from someone else's, or someone might love 15 songs from the album.

Is it just me, or did you effectively violate that bit about "not using this paragraph out of its intended context"? Anyway...

Personally, I think the artist gives full rights to his fans to "play God with his work" the moment he puts it out. Try as he want, he will never be able to completely control everything people do with it, and the Internet has effectively vandalised any idea of intellectual control and authority. As much as I'm not a personal fan of this kind of "rearrangement" of tracks, I think it's on the same league as those fan videos that people praise in this forum: it's a personal reinterpretation of an artist's work. That is about as old as art itself. I see no problem in Rodheh sharing it with others; nobody is being forced to accept it as "canon" or anything, and he is in no way trying to be authoritative over which tracks are "better" than others, and what other people's favourites can be. He only expressed his own personal preferences and visions, and guess what? Every art is exactly that.

Myself, I think I'd be curious to check out if someone did that to The Campfire Headphase, for example; but that wouldn't mean that I could completely scrap out the original album from history. Being a huge fan of Tomorrow's Harvest, I see no need to rearrange it and I'd rather listen to the full album anytime. But Rodheh's initiative is completely valid, and at least he's doing something constructive with his opinions instead of going into random threads to spread negativity in the form of small flamebaits (like in the Most Depressing Song thread)...

Rodheh wrote: See, I understand how to recognize when an artist puts out an album that's not as good as what they've done before but is still good.

I think you're being way too authoritative about something that like you said, is an opinion. Cherry picking a few songs that YOU like and compiling them (not even remixed) for public consumption is the ultimate statement to the world that you and only you can decide what is worthy and what is not.

Rodheh wrote: Nine Inch Nails did that just this year with Hesitation Marks - is it any fucking Downward Spiral? No, but it was still good. I'd give it an 8.3. It was really varied in sound, it wasn't extremely repetitive, and it was interesting. Tomorrow's Harvest was none of these things for me, it was repetitive, it was largely uninteresting, it contained a bunch of filler tracks that lacked what made BoC special in the first place, and as a whole the way they shipped it out, it's a poor album. It's not awful, but it's a 4/10. I had previously said 6/10 but the hype wore off. I can accept that Tomorrow's Harvest is bad and it doesn't make Geogaddi not a 9.9 still for me, because it wasn't a sin against mankind like Daft Punk's Random Access Memories.
/opinions

The new NIN is terrible (or I'm just old) - it sounds like a Wesley Willis record with a NIN filter passed over it. It's hard to be pigeonholed into a certain sound. When you're middle aged, successful and contented, you're just not going to be able to make convincing angsty industrial music. Maybe this same transition into stable adulthood and family life is what has caused some people to feel they've lost their love for new BoC material, but I personally don't feel that way. I think in some cases your enjoyment and love for an artist has to do with where you're at, and where they're at when they make a seminal piece of work. Chances are over the years, the listener and the creator will both drift away from what created that connection in the first place, often in opposing directions.

It's easy for me to recognize because I can remember liking NIN as a teenager, BoC felt like my transition to real adult music. Thankfully, to those paying attention, BoC has tried really hard to avoid going back to the well, filtering their "sound" through different concepts over the years. This means that maybe not every piece of work is for everyone. I really loved TH because it brought me back to what I liked listening to as a teenager, with a more mature sound. They took me away from darker music, now it's nice to revisit it 15 years later. It really was a full circle type experience for me - I never thought the group that opened my ears to different sounds and even different ways of thinking would drop me off right where they picked me up.

Somehow in all that, they've created their best piece of music in YEARS (that sits right up there with EYDIAB, An Eagle in Your Mind and 5-9-78) with Nothing is Real (in my opinion of course)

As a content adult, I can tell when another content adult is trying to be something they are not. He's not feeling it, and I'm not feeling it either. Trent Reznor is in NIN emulation mode in 2013. This was sort of my main criticism of TCH as well. It just kind of felt like "let's make MHTRTC but without the hip hop beats and children's voices". It didn't help that the vignettes were really boring, which was really sad. I assume you like vignettes too if you named your project after one. Maybe we can at least agree that TH has nice vignettes again?

I get that just like every album since Geogaddi, with TCH they were going for a concept and a narrative, and it has its highlights, but it's nice to see them breaking new artistic ground again.

My Hesitation Marks "fan project" would be a single with "Copy of A / Satellite" - the former because its the most honest piece of work on the album, the latter because its somewhat catchy. I am sure that a lot, or maybe even most people feel differently about it, so I'm not going to enforce my opinion in a public way beyond discussing it on a message board.

For another controversial opinion, I think RAM is probably Daft Punk's best album. I don't really consider myself a big fan of theirs but it's just a really good album in general. Maybe I am listening to music "wrong".

Also, why do we have to assign an arbitrary numeric value to a piece of art to express how we feel about it? Is this how art reviews are done? Did a lot of people give the Mona Lisa a 9.4/10 ? I really hate the Pitchfork way of doing things.

Yay opinions!

Opothecary wrote:The new NIN is terrible (or I'm just old) - it sounds like a Wesley Willis record with a NIN filter passed over it. It's hard to be pigeonholed into a certain sound. When you're middle aged, successful and contented, you're just not going to be able to make convincing angsty industrial music.

It's easy for me to recognize because I can remember liking NIN as a teenager, BoC felt like my transition to real adult music. Thankfully, to those paying attention, BoC has tried really hard to avoid going back to the well, filtering their "sound" through different concepts over the years. This means that maybe not every piece of work is for everyone. I really loved TH because it brought me back to what I liked listening to as a teenager, with a more mature sound. They took me away from darker music, now it's nice to revisit it 15 years later.

As a content adult, I can tell when another content adult is trying to be something they are not. He's not feeling it, and I'm not feeling it either. Trent Reznor is in NIN emulation mode in 2013.

My Hesitation Marks "fan project" would be a single with "Copy of A / Satellite" - the former because its the most honest piece of work on the album, the latter because its somewhat catchy.

Also, why do we have to assign an arbitrary numeric value to a piece of art to express how we feel about it? Is this how art reviews are done? Did a lot of people give the Mona Lisa a 9.4/10 ? I really hate the Pitchfork way of doing things.

Yay opinions!

Oh no. You poked the NIN bees nest. Run!!!!

When a band's put out one record people like it or they don't but they're reacting to the same thing. And maybe it's like nothing they've ever heard, or maybe it reminds them of something else - maybe it reminds two different people of two different things they like.

They put out the next record and if it's more of the same, well there's no story. But if it's different, maybe it attracts a whole different group of people who like it. Of the people that liked it before, maybe it's further towards what that first person liked, maybe it's further away from what that second person liked.

And so on and so on, with each album. It's no surprise people like different things, and see different things in each album. Maybe TH would be great if it cuts out 60% of the tracks. Maybe that 60% you cut is someone's favourite bit. If the 40% of the album you're left with is great for you, then cool.

The only thing that makes me uneasy is when people make authorative statements about tracks being filler, or having lost something that earlier tracks had. "There, this album's perfect now I've cut out all the rubbish bits". Not saying I'm saying you're doing that Rodheh. But once you take something that exists and cut, paste, resequence it into something you like better you are inherently making it something more personal to you and in most cases that's going to result in something that most people who like the original like less. Unless "the original" is the Star Wars prequels, or something.

FernieCanto wrote: Myself, I think I'd be curious to check out if someone did that to The Campfire Headphase, for example; but that wouldn't mean that I could completely scrap out the original album from history. Being a huge fan of Tomorrow's Harvest, I see no need to rearrange it and I'd rather listen to the full album anytime. But Rodheh's initiative is completely valid, and at least he's doing something constructive with his opinions instead of going into random threads to spread negativity in the form of small flamebaits (like in the Most Depressing Song thread)...

I don't really consider any "fan project" canon of course, but at least with the fan videos there is some level of creativity involved even if it amounts to a high tech tribute to the concept of listening to Pink Floyd and watching Wizard of Oz at the same time.

When you just take a handful of tracks you like from an album and put it out with a different piece of artwork and title, it's a slap in the face to the original artist. It's not really accomplishing anything artistically valid, and anyone can create a playlist in their preferred media player to do the same thing. Seems like a project born of ego, not of logic.