____twoism

Aye, let's keep on topic please.

drillkicker wrote:I feel like the Sandisons have some secret detestation for the Autechre guys. It's kind of unfortunate that they would constantly insult every central belief held by the very individuals responsible for their success…

Wait, what? Did I miss something here? How has BoC been constantly insulting every central belief of Autechre? How did you come to that conclusion based on what they said?

747Music wrote:

drillkicker wrote:I feel like the Sandisons have some secret detestation for the Autechre guys. It's kind of unfortunate that they would constantly insult every central belief held by the very individuals responsible for their success…

Wait, what? Did I miss something here? How has BoC been constantly insulting every central belief of Autechre? How did you come to that conclusion based on what they said?

They always say things like "technology is bad," "MIDI programming has no soul," "digital music/synths/whatever is inferior," etc. Meanwhile, the Autechre guys are the complete opposite and believe that technology improves the possibilities of music, and are quite fond of softsynths and Max/MSP. Sean Booth even likes certain telephone apps for music, so it would be hard to imagine the Sandisons being chummy with them these days.

That's a weird thing to say. Personally speaking I have a whole bunch of friends who in my opinion write terrible music. But I don't hate them...

Techboy wrote:That's a weird thing to say. Personally speaking I have a whole bunch of friends who in my opinion write terrible music. But I don't hate them...

With BoC it seems like more than a matter of musical taste, though. They seem dislike technology as a general philosophy. Of course I was exaggerating, but it still seems odd that they would be so against what their old friends at ae take very seriously and do for a living.

drillkicker wrote:

Techboy wrote:That's a weird thing to say. Personally speaking I have a whole bunch of friends who in my opinion write terrible music. But I don't hate them...

With BoC it seems like more than a matter of musical taste, though. They seem dislike technology as a general philosophy. Of course I was exaggerating, but it still seems odd that they would be so against what their old friends at ae take very seriously and do for a living.

Not really what I think. I'd say they have a distaste for modern technology which directs people away from the natural side of things. Like Reddit and Facebook, iWatches and Google Glasses. Generalising their view on everything technology is a bit foolish, I'd say they really love Autechre's work.

On Topic: I think the legal trouble for possible samples is already dusted off for years now. I think mdg was talking about the boxset in 2008 (IIRC) so they would've had more than enough time since then to clear out the legal troubles. Sometimes I think they don't really give a shit about their fans but that's not it either I think.
Maybe they're preparing something big to release it as a nice set, physical box and all. And maybe they don't really understand the concept of time.

drillkicker wrote:

747Music wrote:

drillkicker wrote:I feel like the Sandisons have some secret detestation for the Autechre guys. It's kind of unfortunate that they would constantly insult every central belief held by the very individuals responsible for their success…

Wait, what? Did I miss something here? How has BoC been constantly insulting every central belief of Autechre? How did you come to that conclusion based on what they said?

They always say things like "technology is bad," "MIDI programming has no soul," "digital music/synths/whatever is inferior," etc. Meanwhile, the Autechre guys are the complete opposite and believe that technology improves the possibilities of music, and are quite fond of softsynths and Max/MSP. Sean Booth even likes certain telephone apps for music, so it would be hard to imagine the Sandisons being chummy with them these days.

Perhaps if you use actual quotes from the brother's interviews we could discuss this further.

As far as I understand, they very much respect Autechre and love their music and how they use technology in a unique way, unlike so many popular artists who use it basically to fix their own mistakes and get a perfect sound that was never there by just pressing a button. They don't like where technology is and where it is going, but I doubt they think all technology is bad and no musician should use it. Where would you draw the line on that? What year should be the cut off for synth tech? Boards uses many synths and so does Autechre. Why would someone think that BoC insults Autechre for using tech in their music because their tech is more recent?

"'We just don't like clean sounds,' says Mike. 'We'Ve always loved making electronic music that doesn't sound typically perfect."

- From 'Splendid Isolation' in 'Metro'.

How many sounds on Autechre albums sound clean to you? They have incredible complex and interesting textures.

"On electronica: Mike: We're not huge fans of electronica specifically. Technology has made it so easy for anyone to get into producing music, especially electronic music, that the whole electronica scene has been diluted. It's allowing a lot of mediocre music to be released.'"

- Splendid Isolation again

This is what they were talking about. That technology is making it simple and easy for pretty much anyone to sit down at their computer and make mediocre music that actually gets released. I feel they don't like that because of what they said here:

""So it takes us ten times as long to finish things," says Marcus.
"Where some people will work on a track solidly for four days, we'll spend that long just on a hi-hat sound," Mike laughs.
"It'd be funny if it wasn't true," Marcus chuckles.
"Than again, if there was a way of doing it easily, by pushing a button, we'd do something else because it wouldn't be special anymore," says Michael.
"We like to make things hard for ourselves," shrugs Marcus."

- Boards of The Underground interview from Jockey Slut.

They like it when someone works hard at their art instead of just "pressing a button". That's something in particular that very much impresses me about BoC. That is what drives me to achieve what I have in mind, instead of just "pressing a button" and being satisfied with the result. That's what I hope to do a lot better in my own music now that I have a working, thinking mind that's no longer sedated. That is why they inspire me the most. They are two of the very few actual hard working artists in the world today. Autechre certainly fit the bill too. They aren't just pressing a button or two and boom! there's a song. They work damn hard on manipulating their sounds with their tech to get the awesome music that results.

Bottom line: BoC very much respect Autechre and would not insult someone like that for their hard work, especially of that level. It seems you may have misunderstood what they said?

Well this turned into a much more serious discussion than I expected or intended. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with making a song that doesn't take much effort. Hard work can produce interesting results, but you can also get just as interesting sounds from just pressing a few buttons, as Steven Stapleton and Eleh have shown in their drone recordings. You just have to make sure you're pressing those few buttons in ways nobody has thought of before.

drillkicker wrote:

747Music wrote:

drillkicker wrote:I feel like the Sandisons have some secret detestation for the Autechre guys. It's kind of unfortunate that they would constantly insult every central belief held by the very individuals responsible for their success…

Wait, what? Did I miss something here? How has BoC been constantly insulting every central belief of Autechre? How did you come to that conclusion based on what they said?

They always say things like "technology is bad," "MIDI programming has no soul," "digital music/synths/whatever is inferior," etc. Meanwhile, the Autechre guys are the complete opposite and believe that technology improves the possibilities of music, and are quite fond of softsynths and Max/MSP. Sean Booth even likes certain telephone apps for music, so it would be hard to imagine the Sandisons being chummy with them these days.

wtf are you on about? 'cause AEsean likes telephone apps for making music you come to the conclusion he is not friends with BOCmarcus and BOCmike?

Jesus, flol. You muppet.

Please play nicely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however daft it might sound.

Maybe one day Warp will cash in on a BOC box set of all the "old stuff "

Mexicola wrote:Please play nicely. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, however daft it might sound.

I'll try my best

drillkicker wrote:Well this turned into a much more serious discussion than I expected or intended. Anyway, there's nothing wrong with making a song that doesn't take much effort. Hard work can produce interesting results, but you can also get just as interesting sounds from just pressing a few buttons, as Steven Stapleton and Eleh have shown in their drone recordings. You just have to make sure you're pressing those few buttons in ways nobody has thought of before.

I totally agree with that. If it sounds great it sounds great, it doesn't matter how it was made, whether hard work or ease was involved. I just respect hard work more so. So I try to work hard myself at stuff. I think BoC very much love the result of hard work and expect that of themselves to a very large degree, and they also probably prefer the art they enjoy the most to be the result of hard work. They just seem to not like that soooo much of music today is not the result of hard artistic work. It seems to be more the result of people interested too much in making more money and so develope ways to make making art easier and removing practice or skill. Things like Lipsyncing music in live shows and downloading a pre-programmed synth that comes with it's own sound progression and effects and other things like oops, this girl sucks at singing, let's hire her anyways and fix her voice with a computer. Any artist who works hard at their art would be bummed out that most people are only really recognizing artificial art that is mostly optimized to make money instead of celebrating art itself. What would that mean for the future of art if that type of thing were to take over? It would really suck! That part of the "easy button" I don't like at all. But easy in this sense doesn't always imply the same meaning as simple, because simple methods can still create great art.

It's the motivation, not the method.

Sure, but there have also been songs that the artist put a ton of work into that turned out sounding like shit. I know this from personal experience. Hard work doesn't have an effect on how good a song is, but it can sometimes make a song sound more interesting if the work was done in the right way.

But then there are some artists who make music that would be ruined if there was any more work put into them, like Otomo Yoshihide or Keiji Haino.

Also, being upset by people who don't put much work into their art is pointless. Quality art will always be noticed. But artistic vision is infinitely more important than work, and that's what most artists really lack.

drillkicker wrote:Sure, but there have also been songs that the artist put a ton of work into that turned out sounding like shit. I know this from personal experience. Hard work doesn't have an effect on how good a song is, but it can sometimes make a song sound more interesting if the work was done in the right way.

But then there are some artists who make music that would be ruined if there was any more work put into them, like Otomo Yoshihide or Keiji Haino.

Also, being upset by people who don't put much work into their art is pointless. Quality art will always be noticed. But artistic vision is infinitely more important than work, and that's what most artists really lack.

That's true, hard work doesn't always produce the best results. But it is much more respectable than not trying at all, wouldn't you say? Hard work absolutely DOES have an effect on how good a song is, it's just that it's not the only factor in what makes a song great. Like you said, artistic vision plays the largest part. But if you have artistic vision and don't bother working hard enough to achieve that vision, then the vision is not realized and there was no point. They work together.

Artistic vision, as what artistic vision should truly be, is what's lacking in a large part of popular art. Working hard at getting that vision isn't so much a problem with that, you are correct. But that's because the vision being presented these days is how cute is this girl or guy and how can we make people fall in love with them and idolize them. The vision is to make people want to be this idol that has fake values. That's why I don't like a lot of rap music that's about getting laid, doing drugs and making more money and the ridiculous things to spend it on. Or why I don't like listening to most songs by a 13 year old boy singing about love acting like he knows what he's talking about. That's not the kind of artistic vision I like at all. It's pretty much just marketing first and lame art second.

To me, good artistic vision should inspire someone to do something worthwhile. It should instill something beneficial and not superficial. It should be enjoyable on many levels. At best it can be interpreted in different ways when you take time to think about it. It should be a symbol of what is in the artists mind at the time of creation, as close as he or she can get it. Boards of Canada has very specific artistic visions, and they are amazingly good visions. What separates them from a lot of other artists with great visions is that they put in an incredible amount of work in order to get as close to that vision as possible. If they didn't put in as much work, it would still be pretty awesome. But since they basically stop at nothing to achieve their mind on paper, or magnetic tape in this case, their music is basically unmatchable and unique. Isn't that another quality we should be looking for in good art? That it's something different?

So people can be upset about actual good art declining in popularity slowly, but as long as it doesn't motivate them to succumb to laziness in their own art. It's that people are giving in and not achieving their artistic vision as they should be. Instead, they push a button that someone else programmed and call it art. I am absolutely guilty of that, as tons of us have been at one point at least. Again, that's why BoC inspires me more than other artists. They encourage me to work hard at achieving my artistic vision. I'm slowly learning not to make compromises in my results.

Sometimes it's easy to get the results I was looking for, sometimes it's really hard. The hard work I was talking about comes ONLY in the latter part of that last sentence. I wasn't saying that everything about making music should be hard. I was saying that if your specific vision ends up needing hard work, then you should definitely work hard.

On second thought, there's a lot of good art that comes without any vision at all. Soliloquy for Lilith, a masterpiece of an album, was all done accidentally when the audio effects that made the sounds were acting in ways they weren't supposed to. My own remix EP on my Bandcamp page was recorded while accidentally making cool sounds using past creations as source material, and had no vision at all; much of my music was made with no goal in mind, improvised in the process of production. It's the same with Psychic TV's latest album, which had no previous planning done before the recording started. I guess all that really matters is that the music sounds good. Hard work isn't essential to doing that and neither is artistic vision, but both of those can certainly help in some situations.

drillkicker wrote:On second thought, there's a lot of good art that comes without any vision at all. Soliloquy for Lilith, a masterpiece of an album, was all done accidentally when the audio effects that made the sounds were acting in ways they weren't supposed to. My own remix EP on my Bandcamp page was recorded while accidentally making cool sounds using past creations as source material, and had no vision at all; much of my music was made with no goal in mind, improvised in the process of production. It's the same with Psychic TV's latest album, which had no previous planning done before the recording started. I guess all that really matters is that the music sounds good. Hard work isn't essential to doing that and neither is artistic vision, but both of those can certainly help in some situations.

No method of art is 100% reliable or successful and also the opposite. It's just that the chances are much much higher if you have a good artistic vision and are willing to work hard towards achieving it. That is the best method, period. Good art can come from almost anything and we could sit here and discuss the many ways that it comes about. It doesn't change my point. Artistic vision + working hard towards achieving that vision if that vision requires hard work = an artists best chance at something great.