____twoism

Fredd-E wrote:I voted for stricter moderation.

Why? I think our current rules are already more than lenient and reasonable enough.

Rule 5, 6, and 7 are what it's all about in the current discussions it seems:

5) Do not set up multiple accounts, sign in to spam, or post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, racist, sexually-oriented, or any other material that may violate any applicable laws.

6) Do not post provocative messages to purposefully cause disruption and arguments. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider informed).

7) Do not post off-topic messages inside of forum threads

I don't see why we shouldn't be strict with regards to these rules. Do we really need toxic behaviour that makes people feel unsafe or even stay away? That's not the Twoism I signed up for in 2004.

I voted "balanced" but I agree 100%. The many votes for less moderation are worrying.

ASYMPTOTE wrote:I've posted some questionable stuff. I don't hate a single organism on this planet though, even mosquitos have their place. I don't think we can grow as a species if we don't challenge each others' beliefs. I voted for greater freedom of expression, even if I say something that I later regret. Life hurts sometimes. Find your own center.

I deeply appreciate hearing from you.

unplugred wrote:hello
ive mostly been lurking around the new release and speculation thread, so it is quite shocking to see people talking about how trans people are sexual fetishists in this thread, and the general anti trans sentiment coming from this thread.
ive felt unsafe and unwelcomed at many parts of the internet, and i did not expect a forum about an electronics band being one such place.

to put it plainly, a place that is tolerant to intolerance is an intolerant place, and if this talk about sexual fetishism and freeze peach will continue, all of the queer and gay people will simply leave.
i have been facing bs at work and online and at family gatherings and so when i get to actually choose the places i get to be in i wont choose one that is actively hostile towards me.
things have been depressing enough as it is and places like this forum should offer an escape.

if u wanna act like a prick towards queer ppl, there are plenty enough places to do that on the internet as it is
leave us alone

I do want to let you know that there a lot of longstanding Twoism members who are trans, so I hope you find a sense of community here and wish that you'd post more!

We don't tolerate transphobia here. FWIW I don't identify as trans, but I am nonbinary and queer, and have been in the Electronic Music Scene since 2004, so there's an expert on those issues on the mod team and I've always swiftly dealt with those issues if they arise on the forum. I understand, inherently, when someone is being discriminatory even on the most benign, insidious, "devil's advocate" or "let's play a game" levels. Yes, this response is pointed at vitriolie and serves as a warning, though I do appreciate hearing from him as well.

We are not "play games" in this thread. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance and hate is zero tolerance around here. It's been rules 5 and 6 since the dawn of time.

2020k wrote:

unplugred wrote:hello
ive mostly been lurking around the new release and speculation thread, so it is quite shocking to see people talking about how trans people are sexual fetishists in this thread, and the general anti trans sentiment coming from this thread.
ive felt unsafe and unwelcomed at many parts of the internet, and i did not expect a forum about an electronics band being one such place.

to put it plainly, a place that is tolerant to intolerance is an intolerant place, and if this talk about sexual fetishism and freeze peach will continue, all of the queer and gay people will simply leave.
i have been facing bs at work and online and at family gatherings and so when i get to actually choose the places i get to be in i wont choose one that is actively hostile towards me.
things have been depressing enough as it is and places like this forum should offer an escape.

if u wanna act like a prick towards queer ppl, there are plenty enough places to do that on the internet as it is
leave us alone

I do want to let you know that there a lot of longstanding Twoism members who are trans, so I hope you find a sense of community here and wish that you'd post more!

We don't tolerate transphobia here. FWIW I don't identify as trans, but I am nonbinary and queer, and have been in the Electronic Music Scene since 2004, so there's an expert on those issues on the mod team and I've always swiftly dealt with those issues if they arise on the forum. I understand, inherently, when someone is being discriminatory even on the most benign, insidious, "devil's advocate" or "let's play a game" levels. Yes, this response is pointed at vitriolie and serves as a warning, though I do appreciate hearing from him as well.

We are not "play games" in this thread. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance and hate is zero tolerance around here. It's been rules 5 and 6 since the dawn of time.

You are absolutely crazy in the head to think that someone hidden behind the internet account, by his/her/they imagination, will not allow me to think or say something on the internet.

Stay safe brothers and sisters

vitriolie wrote: You are absolutely crazy in the head to think that someone hidden behind the internet account, by his/her/they imagination, will not allow me to think or say something on the internet.

Stay safe brothers and sisters

Unfortunately arvy, what you fail to realise, is that while you are here on this forum, you are bound by our rules, in place longer than you have been a member. Whether you like it or not, there will be actions for your actions by those rules.

You can go to a place with fewer consequences if you'd like, and no-one is stopping you, but twoism has no nature to single out your divisive language from the rest, simple.

unplugred wrote: I've mostly been lurking around the new release and speculation thread, so it is quite shocking to see people talking about how trans people are sexual fetishists in this thread, and the general anti trans sentiment coming from this thread.

I never meant to imply that trans people are sexual fetishists only that there is a difference between genuine gender dysphoria and sexual fetishism and that there might be a correlation between the two (remember that correlation does not imply causation). It's important to recognize that gender identity is a complex and deeply personal experience that goes beyond mere sexual attraction or fetish. Understanding this distinction can foster more respectful and informed discussions about the experiences of trans individuals and the challenges they face. I apologize that my language was unclear. These are the kinds of topics that people should be able to discuss

Counterpoint: this is after all a music discussion forum, and do we have to have every available forum be a dissection of the validity of our identities? Because into those discussions, inevitably, conspiracy minded bigots wanting to start shit come and well... Start.

This place was at it's best when it was a chill place for people with a common interest to hang out, and the overly permissive attitude to allowing any and all opinions gradually turned a lot of cool people away.

We can only take the one very important thought quote so far. It is important that no speech is criminalised. But that doesn't mean every clubhouse turns into an avenue for people to bring toxicity. Bars have door rules and ultimately bouncers for a reason. It's fine to say "take it somewhere else" and if people don't, show them out.

Voted "stricter moderation" if it wasn't obvious... Go back ten years and look at a forum where people were talking and creating and inspiring and not just laundering conspiracy theory podcasts and right wing idealogues opinions on the basis of "just debating, bro".

Sorry to be blunt about it, but it's been getting under my skin a lot recently and I don't want to see all the cool people leave and have this place become another thing the Joe Rogan mindset ruined

I think you need to chill. Thinking that people here are being honest, you can almost hear the pain they’re sharing. But even that doesn’t give anyone the right to impose their opinion on others.

Honestly, you just made a stinker here—mixing everything with your anxiety about politics and lashing out at others. This is toxic behavior, right here.

And can you stop talking about Trump for a moment? Not everything has to revolve around politics or your stance on it. Who cares? Exactly—nobody. Go vent somewhere else.

Like many others, I didn’t sign up for a “you can’t say this or that” forum. I signed up for twoism.org, which is a strange name for a strange album by a very strange band.

Let’s embrace strangeness and wild conspiracies—from legends like Opotgecary and Cupz to the weird goons like asymptote and watercan, bringing in different opinions and views.

So if you don’t like it, the door’s right there.

And if not, you can always go for a walk—it usually helps.

vitriolie wrote: So if you don’t like it, the door’s right there.

Humm sorry, who are you again? And why do you feel entitled to kick users from this forum in which you've only been in for 6 months? The nerve of these incels.

And like it or not, everything is politics.

Also fuck trump.

vitriolie wrote: Like many others, I didn’t sign up for a “you can’t say this or that” forum. I signed up for twoism.org, which is a strange name for a strange album by a very strange band.

Okay, you didn't sign up for political debate, and silencing of freedom of speech, yet your current username literally has "vitriol" in it, a word meaning intentional malice and bitter criticism? Come on! Not very positive of you! You wanna reach for the stars and see this forum thrive in experimentalism of thought? Maybe don't name yourself after a descriptor of anger and hate.

I do appreciate what you originally signed up for in 2013 as arvy, but it clearly no longer has your attention. What changed you to become so politically focused as of late? It's not even the politics themselves, but the newfound concentration and drab repetition, I remember you as a multifaceted intriguing fella with your contributions in threads.

vitriolie wrote: And can you stop talking about Trump for a moment? Not everything has to revolve around politics or your stance on it. Who cares? Exactly—nobody. Go vent somewhere else.

Quite the self-report there

Negamuse wrote: Voted "stricter moderation" if it wasn't obvious... Go back ten years and look at a forum where people were talking and creating and inspiring and not just laundering conspiracy theory podcasts and right wing idealogues opinions on the basis of "just debating, bro".

It was a fun time in twoism's history, I love reading those old topics.

It was. It can be again! Having a bunch of people around making stuff instead of raking over toxicity keeps the place active in the gaps between albums. There's been a lot of very talented people come through here over the years.

Thanks to the mods for taking this topic seriously.

Balanced, or more permissive, but certainly not stricter moderation.

I'm all for freedom of speech and everyone being able to express their points of view, however, if someone's simply being a dick for the sake of being a dick, then there shouldn't be any tolerance for them.

Also, I don't believe that strict moderation is something that would align with Boards' ethos. I know they don't participate in this community (at least that we are aware of) but they've essentially accepted it as a semi-official public forum, so it would feel somewhat wrong to brazenly go against their beliefs. It would be very disappointing to see this place become a dictatorship.

vitriolie wrote:

2020k wrote:

unplugred wrote:hello
ive mostly been lurking around the new release and speculation thread, so it is quite shocking to see people talking about how trans people are sexual fetishists in this thread, and the general anti trans sentiment coming from this thread.
ive felt unsafe and unwelcomed at many parts of the internet, and i did not expect a forum about an electronics band being one such place.

to put it plainly, a place that is tolerant to intolerance is an intolerant place, and if this talk about sexual fetishism and freeze peach will continue, all of the queer and gay people will simply leave.
i have been facing bs at work and online and at family gatherings and so when i get to actually choose the places i get to be in i wont choose one that is actively hostile towards me.
things have been depressing enough as it is and places like this forum should offer an escape.

if u wanna act like a prick towards queer ppl, there are plenty enough places to do that on the internet as it is
leave us alone

I do want to let you know that there a lot of longstanding Twoism members who are trans, so I hope you find a sense of community here and wish that you'd post more!

We don't tolerate transphobia here. FWIW I don't identify as trans, but I am nonbinary and queer, and have been in the Electronic Music Scene since 2004, so there's an expert on those issues on the mod team and I've always swiftly dealt with those issues if they arise on the forum. I understand, inherently, when someone is being discriminatory even on the most benign, insidious, "devil's advocate" or "let's play a game" levels. Yes, this response is pointed at vitriolie and serves as a warning, though I do appreciate hearing from him as well.

We are not "play games" in this thread. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance and hate is zero tolerance around here. It's been rules 5 and 6 since the dawn of time.

You are absolutely crazy in the head to think that someone hidden behind the internet account, by his/her/they imagination, will not allow me to think or say something on the internet.

Stay safe brothers and sisters

Sure, you have a point, but as other people said in this thread, we at least expect you to be mindful of other people's viewpoints and experiences, your views are just as noteworthy as mine or any others.

That being said, this is your 2nd sockpuppet account (from what I've heard), you can't say that you didn't get a second chance, because you already got one, and you fumbled it.

The rules already in place are there for a reason, people here shouldn't just go out of your way to cover their ears and scream "la la la la", there's no "no transphobia no anti-gay" rule that i know of, there's just "no discrimination".

Take into consideration that a lot of members here are lgbt, as well as other people who are either supportive, or just don't care. Hell even I was a homophobe back when i was a kid, before I found out that I was asexual.

For everyone, Remember that this is a Boards of Canada centric forum

unplugred wrote:hello
ive mostly been lurking around the new release and speculation thread, so it is quite shocking to see people talking about how trans people are sexual fetishists in this thread, and the general anti trans sentiment coming from this thread.
ive felt unsafe and unwelcomed at many parts of the internet, and i did not expect a forum about an electronics band being one such place.

to put it plainly, a place that is tolerant to intolerance is an intolerant place, and if this talk about sexual fetishism and freeze peach will continue, all of the queer and gay people will simply leave.
i have been facing bs at work and online and at family gatherings and so when i get to actually choose the places i get to be in i wont choose one that is actively hostile towards me.
things have been depressing enough as it is and places like this forum should offer an escape.

if u wanna act like a prick towards queer ppl, there are plenty enough places to do that on the internet as it is
leave us alone

Personally, I'm tolerant of all other tolerant human beings. I'm sorry that happened.

I think the moderators of this forum do an absolutely fantastic job. I think the vast majority of users here are exceptional people. We are brought together by our shared love of a weird little band that makes staggering, transformational music—that is really a very special, wonderful thing.

I voted for a balance and now I’m second-guessing my choice. My concern stems from this wave in politics the past decade or so, and not just here in the US. Basic, essential decency and respect for our common humanity is in a crisis mode. Certain extremist trends have—in my view—emboldened ignorant people to champion their ignorance as Truth; and more insidiously, to loudly proclaim their own ridiculous ideas with an utterly shameful degree of pride.

I heard an interview on NPR with a long-retired US house representative who recounted his shock when Newt Gingrich started using constant war analogies when describing his relationship with house democrats. He said that many of his older colleagues and he himself had served in Vietnam, and the idea of using such rhetoric to vilify the political opposition was beyond disturbing. These men had faced death together; their political differences did not in the least bit erode their mutual respect.

I don’t know where exactly I’m going with this, besides implying that I’d trend towards more aggressive moderation in cases of categorically ignorant rubbish. I agree with Scyye that the number of votes in favor of less moderation is concerning. This is a forum themed around music we cherish. The idea of it dissolving into 4chan or some trash is appalling to me.

Just a quick bit to explain my vote / thoughts!

Take care friends!

There is no sense in 'debating' the merits of neo-fascist ideas. People who abuse their free speech privileges to stir up chaos and hate should be ostracized.

I don’t think I could agree any more enthusiastically

The problem is that I very much believe in a free exchange of ideas; sadly I think people with really dumb ideas think they are the prodigies of some really wooden, silly, actually reprehensible standpoints. These fools are having an unending parade these days, and it makes me bloody sick!

And yes—all life is politics. Get out of here with this “let my nonsense ride” trash.

Quoting this famous story

I was at a shitty crustpunk bar once getting an after-work beer. One of those shitholes where the bartenders clearly hate you. So the bartender and I were ignoring one another when someone sits next to me and he immediately says, "no. get out."

And the dude next to me says, "hey i'm not doing anything, i'm a paying customer." and the bartender reaches under the counter for a bat or something and says, "out. now." and the dude leaves, kind of yelling. And he was dressed in a punk uniform, I noticed

Anyway, I asked what that was about and the bartender was like, "you didn't see his vest but it was all nazi shit. Iron crosses and stuff. You get to recognize them."

And i was like, ohok and he continues.

"you have to nip it in the bud immediately. These guys come in and it's always a nice, polite one. And you serve them because you don't want to cause a scene. And then they become a regular and after awhile they bring a friend. And that dude is cool too.

And then THEY bring friends and the friends bring friends and they stop being cool and then you realize, oh shit, this is a Nazi bar now. And it's too late because they're entrenched and if you try to kick them out, they cause a PROBLEM. So you have to shut them down.

And i was like, 'oh damn.' and he said "yeah, you have to ignore their reasonable arguments because their end goal is to be terrible, awful people."

And then he went back to ignoring me. But I haven't forgotten that at all.

And before anyone gets salty that I'm calling people Nazis, it's a metaphor.

Thinking about the kind of place you want to have and kicking out the people who stop it being that place is an absolutely fine thing to do. If people like me are the problem, by all means, ban me.