____twoism

Wildfire wrote:Also yeah I have to disagree with the sentiment, the odd bit of tat with a release is just fine. The fanbase love them and it puts a few bob in their pocket, don't really see who is losing out with the merch?

puts a few bob in 'fans' pockets too! ebay lists VHS for over £1000, poster/keyring packs given out are averaging £60!

NNYz? wrote:

Wildfire wrote:Also yeah I have to disagree with the sentiment, the odd bit of tat with a release is just fine. The fanbase love them and it puts a few bob in their pocket, don't really see who is losing out with the merch?

puts a few bob in 'fans' pockets too! ebay lists VHS for over £1000, poster/keyring packs given out are averaging £60!

See I don't have a problem with that at all, I've discussed market valuation of BOC merch over on Reddit and get downvoted consistently, as if any kind of capitalism is a dirty word when discussing BOC and that "everything should just be free maaaaaaan".

I pulled up a guy for suggesting that anyone that buys a limited edition poster should just scan it and give out the file for free to the fanbase. Within minutes I was getting downvoted from all angles. Since when did bootlegging merch become something fans are obliged to do for the 'greater good'? Eejits.

Wildfire wrote:

NNYz? wrote:

Wildfire wrote:Also yeah I have to disagree with the sentiment, the odd bit of tat with a release is just fine. The fanbase love them and it puts a few bob in their pocket, don't really see who is losing out with the merch?

puts a few bob in 'fans' pockets too! ebay lists VHS for over £1000, poster/keyring packs given out are averaging £60!

See I don't have a problem with that at all, I've discussed market valuation of BOC merch over on Reddit and get downvoted consistently, as if any kind of capitalism is a dirty word when discussing BOC and that "everything should just be free maaaaaaan".

I pulled up a guy for suggesting that anyone that buys a limited edition poster should just scan it and give out the file for free to the fanbase. Within minutes I was getting downvoted from all angles. Since when did bootlegging merch become something fans are obliged to do for the 'greater good'? Eejits.

I don't think everything should be free (not a huge fan of capitalism either tbh!)
agree with your point of bootlegging tho!

I guess it's just disappointment on my end...then seeing the free promo packs being sold immediately kinda says they didn't want it in the first place!....I'd pay....but not the price its going for atm!

Depressed? No. Just a little sad that I didn't get a keyring, but it'll pass.

I tend to be a dialectical thinker. I try to see things from all six sides

While I don't agree completely. I do feel that all the extra "stuff" is not needed to enjoy the music. However, I do not see anything wrong with having a celebration of sorts...after all it has been 13 years. I kind of think that is how it is intended to be. I remember hunting down the "special edition" of Radiohead's Amnesiac when it was released. It didn't add anything to the music but, I just loved how the CD was presented in a library book.

I hate that it gets you feeling icky or down in anyway but, it's not like BoC are entirely new to this either. They have been selling t-shirts for sometime, there was a special edition geogaddi CD, and lets not forget about the turquoise version of IABPOITC. What about not putting XYZ on the original peel session CD, only to include it on the re-release later. Whether it is WARP driving it or the band themselves I personally will support them in anyway I can. They don't tour and they don't make it a point to release anything with great frequency.

While it does seem to be much more "stuff" for this release. As this case with most things in life...to each their own. Try not to let consume you too much. Enjoy the music and this amazing release window however you choose. At the end of the day that's what it is all about.

What I do find really annoying is that after 13 years of silence, they start teasing this new release.

At first it's subtle, but there are a lot of people who, rather than just being excited, are only talking about how much they want one of the VHS tapes.

Then the album itself is announced, release dates and pre-orders.

What follows from the fandom? is it mass excitement and speculation about the songs, the meanings of the titles and discussions about everyone's theories? Yeah there is a bit of that but it's completely buried by post after post and message after message about shipping problems with vinyls, lack of stock, is the super deluxe glowing red vinyl that reads your mind better than the triple deluxe XXL package with the Flexidisc and personal greeting card from the Sandisons?

And don't get me started about the listening parties, all I heard from everyone going to them was about what merch they'd get and indignation about certain locations getting merch that others didn't.

Where are the people who don't care about any of this nonsense and only want to talk about the music?

This is what you see on Reddit, a fixation on everything but the music itself.

Altruizine wrote:What's the deal with relentlessly looking for opportunities to be upset these days

2020k wrote:The thing that has really rubbed me the wrong way is that in order to get a VHS tape you had to have bought a WarpBOC merch drop from 2025. I don't have other words to describe it other than tone-deaf.

The VHS mailings were cute as all hell and that was an obvious if not the only way to track down BoC mega fans' current addresses

FWIW I didn't like whatever Warp intern was logged into their social media accounts liking comments either.

Someone earlier said that the "trinkets are free and easy to ignore," yeah, until you go on eBay over the next 600 years and see the gross exploit they cause. Has anyone seen the price of kaleidoscopes nowadays? It took me like 10 years to find a white TCH vinyl without feeling like I was price gouged and got one last year. I do not like the kind of scarcity that turns people from fans into people wanting to make a quick buck (or in the case of social media, get a dopamine hit).

In summary: I do not like the consumerism element of it, as the OP stated. I like ~*the trinkets themselves*~ and am going to seek them out tomorrow while they are available, but they should be in the Bleep store or something. Or be shipped with the deluxe. And then you have the fans mad that a red vinyl isn't very limited. GOOD????? Let people have access to the thing that is red so no one is forking over their house on Discogs for it in 3 years?????

The VHS tapes and RSD releases are the exceptions for me. They were creative approaches. Everything else has basically been a labububaby to me.

2020k wrote:

Altruizine wrote:What's the deal with relentlessly looking for opportunities to be upset these days

2020k wrote:The thing that has really rubbed me the wrong way is that in order to get a VHS tape you had to have bought a WarpBOC merch drop from 2025. I don't have other words to describe it other than tone-deaf.

The VHS mailings were cute as all hell and that was an obvious if not the only way to track down BoC mega fans' current addresses

FWIW I didn't like whatever Warp intern was logged into their social media accounts liking comments either.

Why though? Who cares? Any signs of life from them were in high demand and someone in their camp was willing to throw frantic fans half a bone

Two quotes come to mind:

"Merchandise, it keeps us in line. Common sense says it's by design. What could a businessman ever want more. Than to have us sucking in his store...You are not what you own." -Fugazi

"You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world." -Fight Club

Regarding what I received at the listening session, it was part of the ritual, and every part will or was used like a buffalo carcass. Moving forward, focus on the music and ignore those concerned with being consumed by consumption.

Excerpt from translated 2005 interview: Two months ago a test pressing on blue vinyl, and with only one side of four songs from “Geogaddi,” went to auction on eBay. One ‘amtiskaw’ put it up for auction and someone bought it for 215 pounds. “We know ‘amtiskaw,’ he’s a former Warp employee who left the job and is now starting a business, he needs the money and that’s why he’s selling all those rare records. But he isn’t the problem,” says Michael Sandison between laughs. “The problem is that someone is paying more than 200 pounds for a piece of blue plastic.”

https://bocpages.org/wiki/La_Materia_De ... ue%C3%B1os

some trinkets already on ebay for over 300!

shame but eh

Den wrote:Excerpt from translated 2005 interview: Two months ago a test pressing on blue vinyl, and with only one side of four songs from “Geogaddi,” went to auction on eBay. One ‘amtiskaw’ put it up for auction and someone bought it for 215 pounds. “We know ‘amtiskaw,’ he’s a former Warp employee who left the job and is now starting a business, he needs the money and that’s why he’s selling all those rare records. But he isn’t the problem,” says Michael Sandison between laughs. “The problem is that someone is paying more than 200 pounds for a piece of blue plastic.”

https://bocpages.org/wiki/La_Materia_De ... ue%C3%B1os

THIS.

But, also, it's gotten so much worse than 2005, so there is also an inherent problem with the reseller market more than there was prior. I can only imagine WTF would happen if BOC toured.

2020k wrote:

Den wrote:Excerpt from translated 2005 interview: Two months ago a test pressing on blue vinyl, and with only one side of four songs from “Geogaddi,” went to auction on eBay. One ‘amtiskaw’ put it up for auction and someone bought it for 215 pounds. “We know ‘amtiskaw,’ he’s a former Warp employee who left the job and is now starting a business, he needs the money and that’s why he’s selling all those rare records. But he isn’t the problem,” says Michael Sandison between laughs. “The problem is that someone is paying more than 200 pounds for a piece of blue plastic.”

https://bocpages.org/wiki/La_Materia_De ... ue%C3%B1os

THIS.

Yep. That's 100% the problem. It was that way then and is still that way now, maybe even worse TBH. Sadly the secondary market determines the "value" of certain things. Nice reference Den.

If BoC released this album with out any of the "extras" I would be just as happy. I will support them on any official avenues via a t-shirt or a free promotional handout. I do not see the "value" in paying for something that was given away for free or more than what it was intended to be sold for just to say I have it. Again, doesn't make the music sound better or bring anything else tangible to the experience.

Ok good. But again, what about that Hexagon Sun story?

I like the little things for fans, the freebies. I mean, I've made merch before for events, got t-shirts and hoodies made, got enamel pins made and whatnot, I know they're cheap to make and (not that BoC do this really, but) in the age of streaming, if you're selling these things then it's a good way of getting some money back to the band cos Spotify aren't paying shit.

But I mean, what do you do? Its nice to make little one offs for fans but a certain number of those are always gonna end up on eBay. All you can do is hope that they reach *someone* who really wants them. Cos like I say they're not costly but they can be valuable. Its sad to see them getting resold for so much.

We defo need that Hexagon Sun story

I really don’t care how many versions and merch are produced. I want a physical release from every niche artist I love. Naturally, as a BoC fan, I want to own every version available, after all I’m a collector. It’s their right, and I don’t think artists in the IDM genre generate all that much income from their music compared to pop artists so they deserve it much more imo. Whatever percentage goes to Warp or the artist, they certainly deserve it.

2020k wrote:The thing that has really rubbed me the wrong way is that in order to get a VHS tape you had to have bought a WarpBOC merch drop from 2025. I don't have other words to describe it other than tone-deaf.

How would you have gone about sending a tape to random fans as part of this campaign? Surely this was the only option.
Because of import taxes and so on, I don’t buy everything directly from Bleep, but I did buy 2 T-shirts from Bleep back then and have spend hundreds of Euro's over the years at Warp/Bleep. Unfortunately, neither I nor many others received a tape. I suspect it was a random draw.

The Other wrote:

2020k wrote:

Den wrote:Excerpt from translated 2005 interview: Two months ago a test pressing on blue vinyl, and with only one side of four songs from “Geogaddi,” went to auction on eBay. One ‘amtiskaw’ put it up for auction and someone bought it for 215 pounds. “We know ‘amtiskaw,’ he’s a former Warp employee who left the job and is now starting a business, he needs the money and that’s why he’s selling all those rare records. But he isn’t the problem,” says Michael Sandison between laughs. “The problem is that someone is paying more than 200 pounds for a piece of blue plastic.”

https://bocpages.org/wiki/La_Materia_De ... ue%C3%B1os

THIS.

Yep. That's 100% the problem. It was that way then and is still that way now, maybe even worse TBH. Sadly the secondary market determines the "value" of certain things. Nice reference Den.

Thanks. Yes, if anything part of the motivation behind repressing records is to thwart the secondary market. I am excited for the cassette though, because tape as a medium brings something tangibly unique to the music.

Side note, at the pub after the session, there were a few people who came up to me asking about the envelope.

Aesthetics wrote:

2020k wrote:The thing that has really rubbed me the wrong way is that in order to get a VHS tape you had to have bought a WarpBOC merch drop from 2025. I don't have other words to describe it other than tone-deaf.

How would you have gone about sending a tape to random fans as part of this campaign? Surely this was the only option.
Because of import taxes and so on, I don’t buy everything directly from Bleep, but I did buy 2 T-shirts from Bleep back then and have spend hundreds of Euro's over the years at Warp/Bleep. Unfortunately, neither I nor many others received a tape. I suspect it was a random draw.

I've done marketing as my day job since 2021 - that's why you usually see me in the topics revolving around the marketing aspect of BOC. I've always found what's done with them fascinating, even this (though I feel it's wonky in parts, see earlier replies).

There are a lot of ways to split the atom that doesn't involve fans shelling out merch drop money. I think it was a smart move from a label and store sense, but when you take into account the fanbase and the artists, no. For starters, they could've asked for address and email on the BOC website and shipped VHS tapes out at random that way. No money involved, just knowing the dedicated fans probably signed up first, then lottery style for the latter subscribers. They did get it right with how they went about the Listening Party invites. I was surprised. They completely circumvented scalpers/casuals and filled those rooms as properly as they could have.