bye bye

[Fredd-E]

Look forward to reading HMB's reply.

Don't think there will be one to be honest. If he's a bit consistent, he is away for good, like he stated.

I don't really get where his post came from because I know I and the other moderators did our best to fight piracy on this board. It's a bit sad, but to each his own.

[novayshun]

wow, what a baby

[bleak.]

I don't really get where his post came from because I know I and the other moderators did our best to fight piracy on this board.

you guys do a great job on fighting the piracy. i love the fact that artists on this board often link their material and their material only. actually, i think this board has a lovely community like feel that keeps me returning, even if i only leave the odd few words here and there. i spend a great number of hours discovering twoism members music, film/book recommendations and everything else. long live twosim.org!

[Mexicola]

long live twosim.org!

Damn right.

[Cupz]

long live twosim.org!

Damn right.

I second.

I really believe Twoism.org is the best website in the world, and I'm so fucking happy I found this place. It exually changed my life.

I grew up (and still am growing up) on this forum for crying out loud!

[eppers]

filesharing is probably the only way good music is going to spread...
if filesharing stops then it means that most marketing and exposure will be based on media, big media is gonna eat small media, and big labels would eat small labels, and we would end up not listening to shite, maybe not us, but the numbers of people exposed to this kind of music would surely decrease a lot.

[turquoise70]

I'm sorry to see HMB go. He is a cool dude if ever there was one.

That said, I'm sure my comment about being a "frequent vocal proponent" of internet piracy is the spark that lit the haystack.

Here's my say: I download music for free, because I can, and I love it and encourage it. If I thought the music was a well-crafted piece of art WORTH BUYING, I buy it. If I don't, I usually delete the MP3's because i VALUE MY HARDDRIVE SPACE TOO.

The idea here is very closely tied to the idea of law as we conceptualize it here in the western world. As Ammon Hennacy said: Oh judge, your damn laws. The good people don't need them and the bad people won't follow them, so what good are they?

Music will be bought by people if musicians make their music into a product worth buying. Nobody wants to face up to the fact that most of the shit being marketed as a product worth buying is, according to most everyone (the numbers on piracy don't lie), NOT worth it. No vale la pena.

It's not just the music, everyone gets hung up on that. It's the shitty replaceable format it's presented in as well. If all you are doing is writing some lame songs and burning them onto a CD, a cheap, replaceable CD just like any other, or worse, just releasing it in the form of a couple fucking MP3s in a zip file, you've not given anyone a REASON to value your stupid songs as anything more than what they are: some music in the air that you find pleasant. And as long as all you're marketing is pleasant music that fills the air, you'll make no money, because pleasant music that fills the air is and always has been cheap or free throughout human history.

Copyright law on the subject is so confused and muddled it's outrageous that anyone's allowed to make money off this shit in the first place. You can play any song ever written by anyone, ever, in its full entirety, live. And you don't owe anyone a cent. But if you take even the tiniest snippet, less than a microsecond of someone else's work and use it in your own RECORDING, well then that's DIFFERENT. THEN, provided someone can CATCH you, you're fucked and you owe the industry whatever they sue you for.

It shouldn't be the case that twenty thousand musicians all across the country are living comfortably off their musical income. Why? Music isn't worth that much to anyone. If, somehow, by some trick of law, all twenty gajillion of the world's musicians were all paid full, fat happy salaries for their music, something will have gone terribly wrong with the human value system. Because people don't value music that much. I'm really sorry it is that way. But even I don't value music enough to want to sustain a system where you can write 12 stupid songs and expect to live comfortably off it. If you're an artist and you just HAVE to live the good life, can't be arsed to starve a little, then do something less replaceable and oversaturated than music. Carve sculpture, make furniture. Those things are WORTH more to MORE people.

I am totally sorry if anyone hates me for writing what I wrote. Those are my feelings on the subject. I am an artist and I don't expect - or want - to make my living off my shitty music. I make music because it's in my godforsaken soul and it fills my life with joy to create the music. I make all my other art for the same reason, but this has not distorted my sense of value to the point where I think every artist should make $100 a song, just because. Artists should make however much other people think their music is worth, and we're seeing pretty clearly that a great deal of people don't think all music is worth $22 a CD.

[SallyBear]

I make music because it's in my godforsaken soul and it fills my life with joy to create the music.

I like your music, you'll always have a space in my precious hard drive!!




How f*cking cheesy did that sound?? eeek sorry

[turquoise70]

lol that's a lot better than what i expected as a response. thanks Sallybear!

In my mind, music and money don't mix well. Our culture has commodified music, which other cultures have done (rich benefactors commissioning symphonies by classical composers like Beethoven, for example) but never before with our freedom of media. The only reason Bach's music wasn't pirated too is because there was no internet and no portable orchestra. My point is, historically music has been cheap or free besides brief spikes in history where people found a way to commodify it and lock it up and dole it out to the highest bidder. As near as I can tell, eventually this has always and probably will always return to equilibrium and whatever artificial structure was placed around the music that kept people from acquiring it freely/cheaply is dismantled.

I didn't mean to sound like I don't care about music, because I do - deeply and with a passion your average non-music-nut thinks is borderline idiotic. But I care about the music itself, not about the industry that tries to manage it.

[Totopatter]

Turquoise: I agree with Sallybear, your music rawks.

*sigh* why must you be so smart?

[IanRedpoint]

It's not just the music, everyone gets hung up on that. It's the shitty replaceable format it's presented in as well. If all you are doing is writing some lame songs and burning them onto a CD, a cheap, replaceable CD just like any other, or worse, just releasing it in the form of a couple fucking MP3s in a zip file, you've not given anyone a REASON to value your stupid songs as anything more than what they are: some music in the air that you find pleasant.

Surely the physical (or digital) format of the music is irrelevant? It's what triggers your senses and in your head that is the true value of music. I feel I should give Hills West (for example) for Step Into The Outside just as much as I paid for Quaristice (again, for example). The fact that it was a bunch of mp3 files rather than a slab of vinyl doesn't matter. It's still art that matters and connects to me.

I agree that it's amazing that anybody makes any kind of career in music when we're surrounded by music every minute of the day (more bad than good). It's no longer something that most people consider special and of much value.

However, I would think that the vast majority of people on here are not in that camp. Music matters enough to all of us to make us hang out on a forum built around a love of music. We all have a curious enough ear for a band as relatively "out there" as BoC to have moved or inspired us in some way. We're also none of us so naive as to think that this kind of music can exist publicly without our support.

Maybe I'm in a minority, but once the bills are paid and there's food on the table then I can think of no better way to spend what money remains on the things I love. In my case that's mainly music. Always has been. It's what has value to me. After all Art is the point of human existence. The rest is just admin.

[thedisavowed]

I want everyone to know that we (as moderators) do everything we can to ensure that Twoism is a good place to be. We have rules here and we do what we can to enforce them.

We do however have lives, jobs, girlfriends, families, and responsibilities and I cannot personally promise that I will catch every problem.

So if you're reading this board and you notice a problem and we aren't doing anything about it, don't hesitate to contact us via PM. We may have missed it. We make mistakes. I'm sad that anyone would leave this board b/c they feel we're indifferent to the interests of artists- it couldn't be further from the truth!

As far as piracy is concerned, again- he who is without sin cast the first stone. If there is a member of this board who can honestly say they're licensed to every scrap of software and media on their machine, please, step forward. I have my doubts though. Not that it makes it right, but let's please have some integrity, and let's try to fix problems rather than accuse board members and bail.

I'll redouble my efforts to read threads more thoroughly. But you can definitely help us out if you have an issue. OK?

[harpoon dodger]

Farewell, dude

[Shadowshocker]

are you gonna leave your avatar as that? it's my last memory of you

buy

[Infinite E]

i don't really think that's a fair characterisation of this board. if anything theres less mention of piracy here than elsewhere on the webz.

[Frank]

http://www.demonbaby.com/blog/2007/10/w ... th-of.html < nuff said.

Imho it's seriously ridiculous to leave a forum for your reasons, but hey, all the best.

[novayshun]

i don't really think that's a fair characterisation of this board. if anything theres less mention of piracy here than elsewhere on the webz.

i know, i just think he wanted to go out and be noticed. this is his way of slamming the door on the way out.

[Aesthetics]

Quess we won't get an answer from hungry_manweaselbeast as it seems he really left the building...


Let's speculate what it is!

1. His confusion with other messageboards?
2. A cry for attention?
3. To make a statement?
4. Him wanting to quit at 1000 posts but failed because of the addictiveness of the board so he had to come up with an excuse?
5. To show off with "I got friends in the industry"?
6. The crisis made him do it!?
7. He was hungry?

[Retrodreaming]

Quess we won't get an answer from hungry_manweaselbeast as it seems he really left the building...


Let's speculate what it is!

1. His confusion with other messageboards?
2. A cry for attention?
3. To make a statement?
4. Him wanting to quit at 1000 posts but failed because of the addictiveness of the board so he had to come up with an excuse?
5. To show off with "I got friends in the industry"?
6. The crisis made him do it!?
7. He was hungry?

Id say all of the above ^^

[Mexicola]

Sadly I'm inclined to agree. I think he lost interest and wanted us to know he was leaving. If I've done him a disservice there then I'm sorry, but seriously... if you're bothered about piracy don't use the internet. How far are you prepared to go?

Ah. Whatever. Good luck to him.

Let's move on?