____twoism

We live off of convenience.

Like some other have said, only for a short period. Even when I was on holiday I missed the little things like a proper shower and a full fridge haha. Best to camp a few times a year, it's good to escape.

We can start a whole village here already ..

Me, my sister and some friends are planning to move out to the country some day. I can't stand the city.. The problem with moving out in that way is that it requires money, organization, and that you are a bunch of good people who have the same thoughts and ambitions about it. I think it's important not to isolate completely but to still use the internet and also invite new people and have different events and so on. And I think you don't need to abandon electricity and hot water, just try to live in a sustainable way where nature and animals are treated with respect. But what we are thinking about is where to move.. Sweden's climate sucks so we are looking for a warmer place, but we don't know where yet..any thoughts of the perfect country?

Syberia wrote:We can start a whole village here already ..

Me, my sister and some friends are planning to move out to the country some day. I can't stand the city.. The problem with moving out in that way is that it requires money, organization, and that you are a bunch of good people who have the same thoughts and ambitions about it. I think it's important not to isolate completely but to still use the internet and also invite new people and have different events and so on. And I think you don't need to abandon electricity and hot water, just try to live in a sustainable way where nature and animals are treated with respect. But what we are thinking about is where to move.. Sweden's climate sucks so we are looking for a warmer place, but we don't know where yet..any thoughts of the perfect country?

wales, but don't tell the english that.

Syberia wrote:We can start a whole village here already ..

Me, my sister and some friends are planning to move out to the country some day. I can't stand the city.. The problem with moving out in that way is that it requires money, organization, and that you are a bunch of good people who have the same thoughts and ambitions about it. I think it's important not to isolate completely but to still use the internet and also invite new people and have different events and so on. And I think you don't need to abandon electricity and hot water, just try to live in a sustainable way where nature and animals are treated with respect. But what we are thinking about is where to move.. Sweden's climate sucks so we are looking for a warmer place, but we don't know where yet..any thoughts of the perfect country?

Im from Finland and yeah I think that wintertime is just a bit too long for me. I enjoy summer so much around here but it's way too short compared to long and really cold winter. Will see what the future shows but at the moment I'm not able to drop out from the thing I'm in. Though I do dream about having a small house in some remote and beautiful place with solar power etc...

Saakki wrote:
Im from Finland and yeah I think that wintertime is just a bit too long for me. I enjoy summer so much around here but it's way too short compared to long and really cold winter. Will see what the future shows but at the moment I'm not able to drop out from the thing I'm in. Though I do dream about having a small house in some remote and beautiful place with solar power etc...

I like winter (or at least, survives it) as long as there is snow but it is hard to grow vegetables and fruits here for more than two months of the year.. One can always hope for climate changes..

There should be some sort of a summer gathering for all of us, say a week of us, nature, and Boards of Canada. I vote yes!

Yeah if it weren't for the bike trail by the river here I would barely get any outdoors time. The last time I went camping was about 4 years ago...

i lived alone in the boundary waters area of canada for six months several years ago (voluntarily, yes), and it was a very beneficial experience for me. one of the best i've had i'd probably say. and i've really only come to a few conclusions.

i'm not sure i could've done it for much longer without substantially more preparation, investment capital, and training. i 'grew up outdoors', am now a guide myself, and have spent almost three years of my life cumulatively out under the stars, and i would still say i have about half the required knowledge it would take to truly exist self-sufficiently. not that you'd have to take it to the most extreme, but native american methods of subsistence are really the only way to do it without outside help. there's always something you'll need in town, always. axe-handles, water pails, new tarps, fishing line, whatever.

fucking oregon trail type shit really, it can get pretty miserable and boring too. "you got dysentery!" really reflect on not losing touch with how good modern humans have it on a day-to-day survivability scale. living in the woods could certainly be a notch down in the life-expectancy pole. that's the only thought getting me through living in a city currently.

but, i'd say if you get a group of like minded people together who you can rely on to help out, and you're ready for hard work and planning for the benefit of a large beneficial payoff down the road, then save up, buy some land in some obscure part of idaho or montana or whatever, and just do it. it's hardly impossible. and if you just want to get your feet wet, there are dozens of excellent self-sustaining communes and organizations across the country that could help point you down the right road. you don't even have to wear Tye-dye to get in! i also have some other excellent resources and some more thoughtful advice, i'd be happy to help you out if you're interested.

turquoise70 wrote:personally, after toying around with this whole "back to nature" idea off-and-on for two or three years, I must say I'm COMPLETELY against it.

i don't want to live in some ramshackle compound crawling with insects and germs and dirt. I don't want to have to get along with a bunch of crusty people I probably have nothing in common with. I like hot and cold running water, I like my automobile (I don't care what it runs on, but I don't want to bike everywhere. You try biking everywhere when you live in Minnesota, see how you feel about it come about...February), I like my computer and hi speed internet. I like being clean, I like wearing normal person clothes and living amidst other people in the suburbs. This is my heaven.

I guess I'm a little defensive because for the past few years everyone who's said anything about anything is telling me "living situations like that cannot last, the apocalypse is coming and soon there will be a glorious anarchist uprising and we'll all farm dirt and wear home-made trousers and live in the woods and everything will be awesome". Honestly, if that happens, just kill me.

Ha! I'm with you. I like high tech civilization. On the whole the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

I also think "back to nature" fantasies are often poorly thought out. Romanticizing the pretty parts and glossing over the pains and inconveniences.

Respect to people who go out and prove that they can genuinely hack the rustic life, though.

GrangalanJr wrote:

turquoise70 wrote:personally, after toying around with this whole "back to nature" idea off-and-on for two or three years, I must say I'm COMPLETELY against it.

i don't want to live in some ramshackle compound crawling with insects and germs and dirt. I don't want to have to get along with a bunch of crusty people I probably have nothing in common with. I like hot and cold running water, I like my automobile (I don't care what it runs on, but I don't want to bike everywhere. You try biking everywhere when you live in Minnesota, see how you feel about it come about...February), I like my computer and hi speed internet. I like being clean, I like wearing normal person clothes and living amidst other people in the suburbs. This is my heaven.

I guess I'm a little defensive because for the past few years everyone who's said anything about anything is telling me "living situations like that cannot last, the apocalypse is coming and soon there will be a glorious anarchist uprising and we'll all farm dirt and wear home-made trousers and live in the woods and everything will be awesome". Honestly, if that happens, just kill me.

Ha! I'm with you. I like high tech civilization. On the whole the positives definitely outweigh the negatives.

I also think "back to nature" fantasies are often poorly thought out. Romanticizing the pretty parts and glossing over the pains and inconveniences.

Respect to people who go out and prove that they can genuinely hack the rustic life, though.

In a way, I agree with you but I think it's about what type of person you are. Personally I hate to live in the city. It's to many people and it's all about consuming. I grew up in the country and I really miss it. I don't think going out in the wilderness "Into the wild-stile" and think that you should be able to survive is a good idea.. I just believe that much of today's "things" are unnecessary and that you can live in a simpler way without consume as much crap as we do today.

But certainly, people seem to glorify the whole idea and seem to think that it's just to sit at the fireplace and play guitar all day long..
I know how much work it will take to live in the country like that and grow my own food and have my own animals, etc. but seriously, I know that after a day of hay loading or wood-cutter I feel a lot better than a day of cleaning same-looking hotel rooms as I do today..

But again I think it depends on what kind of person you are..

zeitgeist wrote:i lived alone in the boundary waters area of canada for six months several years ago (voluntarily, yes), and it was a very beneficial experience for me. one of the best i've had i'd probably say. and i've really only come to a few conclusions.

i'm not sure i could've done it for much longer without substantially more preparation, investment capital, and training. i 'grew up outdoors', am now a guide myself, and have spent almost three years of my life cumulatively out under the stars, and i would still say i have about half the required knowledge it would take to truly exist self-sufficiently. not that you'd have to take it to the most extreme, but native american methods of subsistence are really the only way to do it without outside help. there's always something you'll need in town, always. axe-handles, water pails, new tarps, fishing line, whatever.

fucking oregon trail type shit really, it can get pretty miserable and boring too. "you got dysentery!" really reflect on not losing touch with how good modern humans have it on a day-to-day survivability scale. living in the woods could certainly be a notch down in the life-expectancy pole. that's the only thought getting me through living in a city currently.

but, i'd say if you get a group of like minded people together who you can rely on to help out, and you're ready for hard work and planning for the benefit of a large beneficial payoff down the road, then save up, buy some land in some obscure part of idaho or montana or whatever, and just do it. it's hardly impossible. and if you just want to get your feet wet, there are dozens of excellent self-sustaining communes and organizations across the country that could help point you down the right road. you don't even have to wear Tye-dye to get in! i also have some other excellent resources and some more thoughtful advice, i'd be happy to help you out if you're interested.

I'm curious about these communes and organizations you speak of, it sounds like they could be a nice introduction.

I've thought about it before and living without civilisation would totally suck. If we were born into it, it'd be fine, we'd be great at it... but really, no. We haven't had the practice and teaching that our ancestors in that situation had. And to be honest, it's way too likely that the only reason they got on is because people worked together and learned to do things that we take for granted now.

This, incidentally, seems like a good place to let some stuff out. I've been going through some sorta crazy stuff recently; I broke up with my girlfriend of 3 years at the start of this month. And now, I am seeing another girl, who I've been friends with for years. It's a little complicated, but it feels... right.

On Monday we're going to Oban, about 3 hours north of here, towards the highlands. To get away from stuff. To visit somewhere nice and remote, but not too remote. It seems like exactly the sort of thing you guys are talking about.

This summer, all things going to plan, with this new girl I will be going to a little place in the Scottish highlands called Knoydart. It's a peninsula that's disconnected from the road network - the only way to get there is to walk, or to get a boat. We'll be boating People do live there though, and it sounds like the coolest thing -ever-. And when I get back, I'll make sure to bump this thread with photos. (:

if you've ever read Brave New World, then something like the end of that

you know
but without the suicide