____twoism

drillkicker wrote:I've never understood the hate for Jacquard Causeway. I've always thought it's the strongest track on the album.

That said, I never listen to Tomorrow's Harvest anymore simply because of the lyrics to Nothing Is Real. Really, sometimes the most talented musicians can be the dumbest people.

What is it about the 'lyrics' that you particularly object to? The religious content? They've often made reference to religion in their tracks. I don't see what it is that could be interpreted as 'dumb'.

Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

Clearly your mind is set on this and it would be pointless to discuss it further. The stupidity lies only in the interpretation. 'Common sense' indeed.

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

...No. Just.... No. Clearly you also haven’t read deeply into their interviews because if you did, you would know that they do not follow any religion, incuding Satanic... although they often expose that there are those that do... Nothing Is Real, is NOT a satanic song or an “ode to a demon”.... nihilism does not “always” dictate or lead to wickedness... along with what seems line an assumption that what you believe is the “only way” to believe, which, I can already tell I probably would not jive with it at all...

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

"noon-day demon" sounds menacing

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

Wow, just wow. You interpret something a certain way (unrightfully so if you know some background, but never mind that) and then state it as common sense and call it dumb. Sounds like a severe case of ignorance and tunnel vision.

arvy wrote:

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

"noon-day demon" sounds menacing

Use that as a song title... quite epic sounding... lol

Soul_Slip wrote:

arvy wrote:

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

"noon-day demon" sounds menacing

Use that as a song title... quite epic sounding... lol

and this would be a cover-art

I don't think it is reasonable to use religious imagery in your art and not accept that religious people might interpret it that way. I also don't think it is reasonable to assume on a planet of seven billion people that any interpretation of art is the correct one, regardless of what side of the philosophical coin you fall on. It is up to you as a human being to realize that different people believe different things and to be okay with that. Let people live. Let them view the world through their own glasses.

zeoevil wrote:I don't think it is reasonable to use religious imagery in your art and not accept that religious people might interpret it that way. I also don't think it is reasonable to assume on a planet of seven billion people that any interpretation of art is the correct one, regardless of what side of the philosophical coin you fall on. It is up to you as a human being to realize that different people believe different things and to be okay with that. Let people live. Let them view the world through their own glasses.

wow, I was making some idiotic posts before, but this one is gold.

How about No! How about the artist release to the world what they actually feel and the audience decides later. Maybe because this is called art, to shake audiences worldview at first place??? What do you think

And I would be extremely dissapointed in BOC if they would know something (related to BOC project) and didn't share it because they wanted to audience "view the world through their own glasses". As I'm posting this I just realise that TH is in a nutshell. And what makes it speciall. It is a little hint on how the world really works. And who you really are. And what awaits us later. A little secret revellead to the big audience, no matter how uncomfortable it can be.

My grammarly programe sabotage me at the right moment, so I hope you get my point.

"Daemon is the Latin word for the Ancient Greek daimon ("god", "godlike", "power", "fate"), which originally referred to a lesser deity or guiding spirit such as the daemons of ancient Greek religion and mythology and of later Hellenistic religion and philosophy."

- excerpt from the entry for "Daemon" on wikipedia

"In ancient Rome, the genius (plural in Latin genii) was the guiding spirit or tutelary deity of a person, family (gens), or place (genius loci). The noun is related to the Latin verb genui, genitus, "to bring into being, create, produce".

- excerpt on the entry for "Genius"

The original meaning of demon does not necessarily imply a malevolent force, it can be compared to the meaning of the word "genius" which is to say a 'secret' power in humans that allows them to manifest things in reality. JRR Tolkien had the idea of "sub-creation" where the artist was mimicking essentially the divine powers of the creator - in a smaller way creating something from nothing.

It is very easy to misinterpret phrases when they seem to carry a religious tone to them, such is the nature of our beliefs as human beings that have belief in different, seemingly separate things. The voice in Nothing is Real is not so much evil as it seems to represent the soul or genius of a person who has developed rationality and is trying to understand something metaphysical. Things of the Spirit do not make sense in the world of physical matter. The dialogue in the song echos Christ's pleadings on the cross "why have you forsaken me" and can be compared to a righteous person suffering similar to the story in the book of Job.

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

If you interpret the art as Nihilistic then you must assume the artist rejects the existence of demons, and therefore it cannot be an ode to such.

soundxplorer wrote:

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

If you interpret the art as Nihilistic then you must assume the artist rejects the existence of demons, and therefore it cannot be an ode to such.

It most likely isn't intentional. The most effective tool that demons use is their ability to convince us that they don't exist. Regardless, Mike and Marcus certainly demonstrated their ignorance in that song.

drillkicker wrote:

soundxplorer wrote:

drillkicker wrote:Nihilism is a passion that is referred to by the desert fathers as the "noon-day demon." The track "Nothing Is Real" seems to me like some sort of ode to a demon, which is a stupid thing to do with music. I shouldn't have to explain why. This is common sense. Please forgive my boldness.

If you interpret the art as Nihilistic then you must assume the artist rejects the existence of demons, and therefore it cannot be an ode to such.

It most likely isn't intentional. The most effective tool that demons use is their ability to convince us that they don't exist. Regardless, Mike and Marcus certainly demonstrated their ignorance in that song.

No, you've certainly demonstrated your ignorance in this thread. You still don't get it, do you?

I found reflex17's analysis to be very insightful on the religious perspective.

You could argue that a rational mind who questions is sinful, because it could be considered analagous to Lucifer before the fall.

The piper leading the children out of town might sound frightening on the surface, though could it not also be considered a valuable sociological metaphor? Music has long been seen as having the potential for subversion, but I feel that folks who truly understand music will see it's potential not for destruction but for healing and bringing people together. What we see of the band's message would indicate that they are heavily interested in both mathematics and mysticism, and both of these things have rich traditions that predate Christianity.

I understand that beliefs are a focal point for discussion and, unfortunately, arguments as well. Personally I hold the view that tools are here for us to use, and if it weren't for Boards of Canada's equipment, our headphones and computers, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Can't say I think I'm evil though, but I'm not perfect and I can't speak for anyone else on this forum. I don't mean any conscious harm in my words, if that's what evil would be in this context.

You could understand the words spoken in the 'Nothing is Real' as sacrilegious, or as a voice pleading with things that they do not understand. By saying that the Savior knew eternal life was not the truth, it might imply that Jesus was a liar. It could also mean that He was in part a human being, like the rest of us, and capable of having human faults. The song title itself is a reference to psychedelic culture and esoterica, and there are scholars who say that Jesus travelled East and would've been exposed to similar subject matter in His time.

If BoC had a blog and told us the meaning behind everything then problem solved - but I think that's kind of the point.

Music is indeed a vital tool both for communion among ourselves and worship toward God. Unfortunately, our nature can corrupt anything and music isn't an exception. Thus we have many songs that are made not out of love but out of passion.

As for the lyrical content of this song, I can't imagine any interpretation that isn't heretical. Obviously we can't judge Mike and Marcus and accuse them of being evil. It's more likely that they simply don't know what it is that they're communicating. Either way, I prefer to stay away from anything blasphemous as it isn't likely to be beneficial material and it's certainly something I can live without.

When I brought up nihilism, it was more of a reference to the title than the words that are spoken.

As for the theory of Christ traveling east of the Levant, at what point in His life could this have occurred ? I am interested in what primary sources these scholars used, as it isn't anywhere in the canonical gospels.

I could go into the prehistory of the Abrahmic religions as they were influenced by earlier concepts, or the definition of subjective interpretation, but I do not wish to derail an old thread any further. The two of us obviously have different ideas of the Bible and the music of BoC and at no point will I be made to feel "corrupted" for my beliefs, and I don't want to debate someone else over theirs.

From one source all things depend, I suppose.

Maybe it was just something they came across while working on the track and liked how it fit in the context of the song/album? No need to lose our heads here lol.

This ^^^

Play nicely please people.

Perhaps that's the case, and it's musically a great song, but the words make me not want to listen to it and so I avoid doing so. Debates never, ever result in any kind of benefit or change of opinion, so I'm with reflex on this one.