____twoism

iec wrote:fair enough, but I still wouldn't go out to eat with you remind me to cook you dinner. i don't expect a tip.

(in before "just the tip" joke)

Nah man, microwave frozen dinners all the way. Fuck cooking. I did that too, people complain too much that their shit isn't exactly how it looks on the menu picture.

And for the record, if you cooked me dinner and it was awesome you'd get a bunch of cash.

Lol this 'tip culture' seems fucked as hell. We don't tip in France, and everything works perfectly fine!

Moloch wrote:Lol this 'tip culture' seems fucked as hell. We don't tip in France, and everything works perfectly fine!

Life must be so simple in France.

And also, part of what bothers me is the arbitrary "percentage of final bill" thing. That makes ZERO sense at all. (and understand, I mean one person, ordering one meal)


So following this sort of thing, basically I could order a burger for 9 dollars. It comes on one plate. I tip the waiter or waitress a percentage of the bill.

Or I could order a Maine lobster for 27 dollars. Again, it comes on one plate. All of a sudden, I have to tip more because the bill is higher.


The same amount of effort was exerted by the waiter/waitress in taking this order, bringing out the one plate and bringing it back, and yet I am expected to tip more.


I don't care what you think about tipping, if you live your life based on logic and reason (in before DAW jokes) you have to admit that particular ideology regarding tipping fundamentally makes no sense.

It's always just dismissed as a sort of "oh well, just do it man, that's just how things are" thing. I say bollocks - and I'm not even fucking English man. That's just how bollocks this shit is, that's the applicable term.

If we are eating out somewhere and the food is nice and the service is good, we should give 10% of the cost to a tramp on the way home. Everyone wins.

If the waiter wants a tip, tell him to check out some of BoC's earlier stuff, and to never wipe his/her bottom with a broken bottle.

I know a guy who used to live and wait in america and he get's just as nervous when we talk about tipping. It's a cultural difference. Here in belgium we expect that ppl are paid decent by their employer, preferably registerd and not "taxfree" so they build up decent social rights. And how on earth do you tip if you throw a visa card on a silver tray ?

"Tipping culture" is, indeed, a completely fucked-up-the-ass thing, and a fine example of how values can be completely inverted and people will still be okay with it. How is it possible to be culturally, ethically and legally accepted for a worker to be underpaid, for it is expected that the customer's generosity will make up for that? It's inhuman, really. It's just another way to scam the workers and transfer the guilt to the general public. It's the employer's job to assure the workers will be paid what they are worth. Funny how the laws and values of Capitalism -- which supposedly is the most perfect, fair and balanced economical system ever -- can be bent and distorted for the convenience of the selected few, innit?

In Brazil, several places charge a "10% service rate", which is automatically calculated and charged. And in fact, this year, the government had to create a regulation for that, because many owners were stealing that money from the waiters.

Mexicola wrote:I love the tipping culture in America - hilarious. An obligatory amount that's expected/demanded no matter how shite the food/service/attitude. Mate of mine was literally followed down the street for refusing to tip, despite his food arriving late, cold, wrong and virtually thrown into his lap.

Sorry, I'm with Steve Buscemi on this one.

Well, normally you wouldn't tip in that case. Being chased down the street for refusing to tip is an unusual situation.

ShammenDelly wrote:Its like if Larry David was a hefty BOC Fan haha.

I'm imagine a seriously hazy, analog-i-fied version of the Curb theme.

Also, <3 this thread

The way everyone is getting worked up about tipping, you're coming off about as bad as a bunch of MRAs. (That's Men's Rights Activists, in case you're wondering). Jesus. I'm not exactly raking it in, but if go out to eat, and the service was good and I had a nice meal, I drop 20%. No question. Pre-tax.

It's not really that hard, is it? Do you know what tips stands for?
To Insure Proper Service. Stop treating going out to dinner like a chance to make a stand for economic equality. Especially in the US, waitstaff usually make below minimum wage and GET NO GODDAMN HEALTH INSURANCE ON TOP OF IT. Unless they want to pay into an optional system with super high deductibles, no paid time off and no vacation days.
So you see them with bad ankles, taped up wrists, being forced to come in on days when they're sick, all sorts of shit.
And you're making a stand over a couple of bucks?
Stop being a self righteous prick about it, drop a few extra bucks (unless they're being assholes) and go about your day.

ChipSuey wrote:Stop being a self righteous prick about it, drop a few extra bucks (unless they're being assholes) and go about your day.

You could say this about every begger and poor. Do you donate to charity?

Basefree wrote:

ChipSuey wrote:Stop being a self righteous prick about it, drop a few extra bucks (unless they're being assholes) and go about your day.

You could say this about every begger and poor. Do you donate to charity?

I have, yes. And I didn't even claim it on my taxes. I'm awaiting my canonization papers as we speak.

Also, not a good look with the "begger (sic) and poor" thing. Reeks a bit of looking down your nose at people, and I could be considered "lower middle class" more than anything, so feel free to I guess classify me as one of the poors? I'm cool with that.

ChipSuey wrote: It's not really that hard, is it? Do you know what tips stands for?
To Insure Proper Service.

But that's what's so fucked up about it to begin with. It's the company's job and responsibility to insure proper service is given, not the customers'. Tips should work as an incentive to employees, that is, it should be an extra income after the minimum is already ensured.

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be on the debate here since I'm not fighting for my right not to pay the tip, but I'm fighting against the few people who created this evil, demeaning institution of tips-as-part-of-the-wage. And the cruelest thing about it is that if the customer decided to stop paying tips, it would be bad only for the waiters, not for their employers.

I don't look down on anybody or classify you as anything, but truth is it shouldn't be on customer's responsibility to ensure worker's minimum wage. The employer should. Things have fixed values for a reason, such as preventing problems this thread has earlier demonstrated. The tipping culture is probably in the end only preventing these wages from being raised, which is pretty detrimental to its purpose.

FernieCanto wrote:

ChipSuey wrote: It's not really that hard, is it? Do you know what tips stands for?
To Insure Proper Service.

But that's what's so fucked up about it to begin with. It's the company's job and responsibility to insure proper service is given, not the customers'. Tips should work as an incentive to employees, that is, it should be an extra income after the minimum is already ensured.

I don't know, maybe I shouldn't be on the debate here since I'm not fighting for my right not to pay the tip, but I'm fighting against the few people who created this evil, demeaning institution of tips-as-part-of-the-wage. And the cruelest thing about it is that if the customer decided to stop paying tips, it would be bad only for the waiters, not for their employers.

There's a reason the restaurant industry spends millions (billions?) lobbying Congress (this is very US centric, sorry) and it's not out of concern for worker's rights. It's to keep wages low, prevent unionizing, force through "right to work" laws (which basically means you can be fired with no cause) and generally keep profits high.

So as a consumer you can either "make a stand" and not tip the person who's making 5.25$ an hour while their employer rakes in profits (or barely breaks even, if it's not a chain), or be a decent human being, accept that you're living as a decent member of society and work within the social contract that currently exists.

Do I wish it was different? Abso-fucking-lutely.
But acting like it's the worker's problem, and not mine is just power tripping and a straight up dick move. We're all in this together. Then again, I'm a bleeding heart type progressive type who cares about people.

Basefree wrote:I don't look down on anybody or classify you as anything, but truth is it shouldn't be on customer's responsibility to ensure worker's minimum wage. The employer should. Things have fixed values for a reason, such as preventing problems this thread has earlier demonstrated. The tipping culture is probably in the end only preventing these wages from being raised, which is pretty detrimental to its purpose.

I noticed you're from Finland, which based on my limited knowledge of European countries is pretty much a socialist wonderland where people are generally paid what they're worth.
Where I live (USA! USA! WOOOOO!) they treat workers as disposable interchangable cogs in a machine. You can't blame "tipping culture", but you can blame business lobbyists in 3000$ suits and multinational corporations who pretty much dehumanize everyone in pursuit of an almighty dollar.

If I can help out the single mom working two jobs by throwing down 20% on the rare times I do eat out and treat her like a human being, it's a fair trade.

Right, own up - who was this mysterious BoC fan who didn't leave enough of a tip?

We know you're lurking here....

Moloch wrote:Lol this 'tip culture' seems fucked as hell. We don't tip in France, and everything works perfectly fine!

ya....but france is awesome!

Ender wrote:

Mexicola wrote:I love the tipping culture in America - hilarious. An obligatory amount that's expected/demanded no matter how shite the food/service/attitude. Mate of mine was literally followed down the street for refusing to tip, despite his food arriving late, cold, wrong and virtually thrown into his lap.

Sorry, I'm with Steve Buscemi on this one.

Well, normally you wouldn't tip in that case. Being chased down the street for refusing to tip is an unusual situation.

had it happen to me...palamino grill, westwood, LA....waiter ate ASS. late, wrong food, attitude....bill took forever. so we walked with no tip. he felt it necessary to run out after us, tell us we suck and to fuck off. well...we werked across the street from that resto...and ate there a fare bit. let the manager know....and that dude was off the next day looking for a new job.

ChipSuey wrote: There's a reason the restaurant industry spends millions (billions?) lobbying Congress (this is very US centric, sorry) and it's not out of concern for worker's rights. It's to keep wages low, prevent unionizing, force through "right to work" laws (which basically means you can be fired with no cause) and generally keep profits high.

So as a consumer you can either "make a stand" and not tip the person who's making 5.25$ an hour while their employer rakes in profits (or barely breaks even, if it's not a chain), or be a decent human being, accept that you're living as a decent member of society and work within the social contract that currently exists.

I have no disagreement whatsoever. I also admit I don't know what exactly the situation is in my country, but I would only refuse paying the 10% service fee if the service was truly terrible. Luckily I never went through that, and I'd be embarrassed if someone I was dining with refused to pay that. I just lament that neither of those two options really promotes any positive change. The former sucks, because the waiter loses money and the employer doesn't give a shit, and the latter just maintains the status quo. I wish there could be a third option, but I guess customers don't have any.