____twoism

Watching this is IMPOSSIBLE. I can't figure it out and they desperately want to know who I am. There are 8 trackers on the player, I had to turn off ghostery for anything to happen and you can only login with social media. Giving fake details doesnt work. Even login in with a really old gmail account doesnt work. I'll just wait till its uploaded in different places. THATS BRITAIN I GUESS! This is why I and politics dont mix.

It was fucking dire anyway. Neither side won; both had better arguments than the ones they chose. Typical politics.

Colours-to-the-mast time...

I'm a firm No.

I've given it A LOT of thought - bearing in mind that the Scotland I vote for on Thursday will be the Scotland will grow up in.

Much as I don't like the current system, I want to see it change - not leave altogether. The Yes campaign haven't convince me they can follow through on their promises on practicalities - it's easy to be romantic about "a new beginning", but things need to function. And I don't believe that an independent Scotland will be as automatically left wing and progressive as we've been led to believe. I don't think it is that easy to operate as a wealthy EU country, which Scotland May be, and avoid neo-liberalism/ right/centre-right politics - these things are here to stay.

Not an easy decision, but politics, practicalities and personal reasons convinced me.

A_Northern_Soul wrote:Colours-to-the-mast time...

I'm a firm No.

I've given it A LOT of thought - bearing in mind that the Scotland I vote for on Thursday will be the Scotland will grow up in.

Much as I don't like the current system, I want to see it change - not leave altogether. The Yes campaign haven't convince me they can follow through on their promises on practicalities - it's easy to be romantic about "a new beginning", but things need to function. And I don't believe that an independent Scotland will be as automatically left wing and progressive as we've been led to believe. I don't think it is that easy to operate as a wealthy EU country, which Scotland May be, and avoid neo-liberalism/ right/centre-right politics - these things are here to stay.

Not an easy decision, but politics, practicalities and personal reasons convinced me.

Politics aside it is good to recognise that after Thursday, the vast majority of people - indeed the 80% who are predicted to turn out to vote - will really be working together for a better country. I'm not optimistic that we can turn our real desire for radical change into a reality from our current position, but I certainly hope that if there IS a no vote, I'm proven wrong. I don't doubt for a minute that people are voting the way they are because they honestly believe it's for everyone's good. I just disagree with approximately half of them

There's this article:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/c ... a.24468295

We can awaken on September 19 to the hard but wonderful work of building an ever-better Scotland. On that happy day, we should take Margo Macdonald's advice to heart and, with the eyes of the world upon us, put aside the passions of the referendum and act co-operatively to enhance all that unites us as Scots.

Of course there's also this quote

Dr Martin Luther King rallied the world with "I have a dream", not "I have a blueprint".

either way - I hope we get to see what we're both hoping for - a fairer, more progressive society for us all to live in.

Not Scottish, and Ive got no great desire to see Scotland leave the union. But, I totally get the reasons for wanting too, because at the end of the day a lot of the problems Scotland has are the same ones the non south east has with Westminster. (Im living down here now but Im still a Derbeian at heart). Scotland at least has a chance to make a break for it, and self determination is a pretty important thing. Westminster isnt addressing the problems in the debate let alone in parliament. Nor do I see them addressing them after the 18th unless something like the yes vote happens.

So for every reason I can really think of if I had a vote (I dont) Id have to vote yes. Its sad its necessary but I cant help think it is, yknow?

What's fascinating about the no campaign is how utterly negative it is, how lacking in motivation or inspiration or hope or a future vision. There appears to be no 'selling' of the UK at all.
To an outsider you would imagine that a decent campaign in the right hands could/should almost have them wanting to move to the UK, but instead there's just insults and a list of reasons why any country opting out of a neo-liberal western economy governed by banking and business interests is doomed.
I think this is a combination of a number of things - first of all, the utter contempt that the political classes have for their voters - witness the refusal to take a yes vote seriously until the last minute.
Then, I don't think that our elites really believe in the UK as a community in any sense themselves - witness the promotion of self-interest at every turn, the pandering to multi-national business interests.
I think there might also be a large dollop of brainwashing - in that they are so brainwashed by the global/neo-liberal capitalist consensus that they are literally paralysed - they can't even begin to imagine policies that might genuinely address the issues, such as inequality, that concern people.
For example, they (and the media), cannot even conceive that things such as land reform/taxes (in other words returning land rents to a country's citizens, or in short, freedom) or lower house prices (in other words lower cost of living) might be good for an economy.
Just my two cents - I'm not Scottish, and I think that even mildly extreme nationalism outside games and sports is for halfwits, but it's so blatantly clear to me why so many will vote yes.

Edit to add - from what I've heard, the level of engagement with politics, policies, issues and economics as a result of the referendum is inspiring and I hope it continues and spreads, because we know that whatever happens, that level of engagement and enquiry is the very, very last thing that our smug and comfortable elites want.

I'll make you an obvious prediction. Vote No and 'they' will go back to not giving an airborne intercourse about you about 0.00000000001 seconds later. Actually, they don't give a toss now, they care about your oil, gas and whiskey revenues, plus the illusion that Britain is somehow still 'Great' and that the 'kingdom' is still 'United'. It hasn't been either for a long time.

I'd go Yes all day long and I'm 40 with a family and a pension to worry about.

Mexicola wrote:It hasn't been either for a long time.

Has it ever?

fujee wrote:

Mexicola wrote:It hasn't been either for a long time.

Has it ever?

Depends how you define great

You know, at the end of the day...


I mean, at least you have voting.

You get to vote and it does something.

If your country becomes independent it has an effect on family and friends in the rest of the UK.

I am with the people of Scotland, whatever they decide

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Good luck Scotland. I hope you get what you want

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A_Northern_Soul wrote:[ ]
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Reports are coming in that some polling stations are closing early due to 100% attendance. That's insane. But brilliant if true. Edit: May be untrue about closing early but the turnout looks true.

Techboy wrote:

A_Northern_Soul wrote:[ ]
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Alarm set for tomorrow morning....

Some listening to keep you Scottish late-night pollsters going