Time to move on?

[sarinsunday]

The whole problem can be stated quite simply by asking, 'Is there a meaning to music?' My answer would be, 'Yes.' And 'Can you state in so many words what the meaning is?' My answer to that would be, 'No.'

I feel the same way. I could go on for hours and hours about my thoughts about music and its connection to life and evolution...and so on.

[two lives]

I don't like Bibio all that much, there's just not enough elements going on in his music. It's pretty (dare I say) boring. For me the more layers and instruments an artist uses, the better. It's nice from time to time but I barely ever listen to him.

Finding something boring isn't always the fault of the creator. Some people find the countryside boring and they'd probably say that there's not much there. OK so from one perspective there are trees and hills and sheep and fences etc. but from another more honest and observant perspective there's quintillions of years worth of intricacy in one blade of grass. It depends then on the viewer, not the creator. It's like saying an eyeball is just a ball of jelly - true to an extent but then it's the most incredible ball of jelly that has ever existed. I'm not saying bibio's music is comparable to an eyeball.

I think that not digging bibio is fine, but to say there is not enough elements going on isn't necessarily accurate. OK some tracks are minimalistic, but that doesn't mean they are lacking, if that was the case then kaini industries would be one heck of a boring track, but in that case the inverse is true. Besides, judging from my fairly accute ears (I'm a music producer), I'd say there are more layers in some bibio tracks than there are in some boc tracks. MHTRTC is THE album for me, and I can count the layers, they are all pretty well separated. However, the layers themselves may have had hours worth of preparation making them rich, unique and varied. This is the case with bibio, where some may fob it off as folky guitars recorded to a dictaphone, some people with perhaps more music production experience may think, no this is far more unique. Besides, if bibio's music was so simple then perhaps it'd be easy to imitate, but I don't think anyone is capable of that. I think that it's possible that some music is appreciate by musicians more than non-musicians, you may be a musician yourself so I only say that as a generalisation. It's like boc is more truly appreciated by people born somewhere between 1970 - 1985 due to the amount of references to a particular era.

[Twoism-ist]

I always have periods of what I'm obsessed with. For me electronic music started out with just Trance, and then I progressed onto different genres, to like DnB, House, Goa-Psy etc.

Then there was a time when I loved sound art, sound collages and other strange avant-garde music.

And then I became really obsessed with dark ambience and stuff.

One time when I was listening to di.fm's ambience channel they played Bocuma and I was like holy shit this is good ambience. So at first I thought they were all ambient, so I popped their name in limewire and downloaded the second track I ever heard from them, Color of The Fire. It scared me off the high end! But I liked it(at first I thought the file was timestretched and corrupt). And it's all history from there...

And thanks to BoC yeah I got into stuff like Bibio, múm and other indietronica.

[YELLOW]

i dont know man, i agree with derail, bibio is kinda plain in some of the songs...kinda long guitar pieces, while still really cool, drag on a little long...

you forget that the boc snipits like kaini industries, i saw drones, beware the friendly stranger, triangles and rhombuses, are all very short...they are really there, in my mind, to switch a certain mood or provoke new ones...

there transitions on geogaddi always to seem to flow and get you ready for the next jingle

[two lives]

Fair comment on the length of tracks, but then again it depends on the listener's preferences. I know for a fact that many people think ROYGBIV is too short, or kaini needs a beat etc. I think that many would argue they were perfect lengths, as are bibio tracks. Again, the lengths, amount of layers, simplicity isn't necessarily the reason why soemthing is good or bad, it just may have a certain je ne sais quoi which can not be explained technically. Imagine this: bocuma was recorded with a software synth in reason with no coloration or ageing of the sounds, it simply wouldn't have the magic that boc's version has. So in this case, the magic extends way beyond its melodic and harmonic content - the melody is, afterall, very simple and consists of 2 layers. It extends into the realms of texture and noise, and it proves that timbre is just as relevant in conveying emotion as harmony and melody. I think bibio's work is melodically more interesting and sounds more considered than many other elctronic(a) artists and also has this added bonus of engaging into the beauty of timbre, but doing it in a way that has mystery. Until you try and get a guitar and a sampler and some analogue equipment and try and make people feel like they're inside a sun bleached Constable painting, it may not appear obvious how much skill is involved. For me, there is something childish/teenage about music that simply boasts manual dexterity and structural intricacy. Although squarepusher is categorically a musical marvel, he as an artist is less advanced in other areas, his music isn't so painterly or picturesque, and therefore despite his ability to knock out track after track of mind-blowing sequencing and amazing bass playing, I think he is losing a grip on artistic exploration - he's becoming one of those virtuoso musicians that musos worship. This may seem superficial, but it is reflected in his newly adopted 'magician' sense of fashion, I think that image is contrived.

[two lives]

On this subject of track lengths and layering, here's a little provocative thought:

The campfire headphase is an album of full-length tracks (whoever decided that 'standard' I don't know) and is also a very layered and produced album, however... it's boring.

It's not psychedelic, it's not thought provoking, it doesn't make me shiver, it doesn't make me think I'm trapped in a faded super 8 ephemeral moment in the rockies, it doesn't make me paranoid or sad - it doesn't do anything that MHTRTC or Geogaddi did... and yet it's a very well crafted album. It proves, to me at least, that there is no real formula to make good music - maybe boc have got tangled in their own web of skill and knowledge and need to break free from a music rut. I hope they do with the next one. They attempted to do it to a certain degree with the bibioesque guitars and 'live' feel, but I think they chickened out - after talk of a very different album, I was disappointed, it was quite diluted. I think Boc have done the thing that they claimed they avoid - they have become too self conscious and have tailored an album to avoid upsetting fans. They should just have released that album of banjo tracks - so it might upset the fans who think Boc is about analogue synths, but surely the essence of Boc goes beyond instrumentation. Some people slagged off TCH because it had guitars in, and they don't like guitars - it's almost pointless voicing an opinion if you've got a problem with a particular instrument. It's an unhealthy prejudice anway. Saxaphones have been used to make a lot of tacky lounge/porn music, but that doesn't mean nobody can make good sax muisc. It's musicians that make music not their instruments.

So MHTRTC and Geogaddi are still my top albums, Boc are still my favourite artists but I'm not afraid or precious enough to claim TCH is not a good album, well it's not a bad album, but not a good Boc album.

I really got into Ariel Pink last year and although he's quite inconsistent, some of his rough, spontaneous 8 track cassette pop songs have more magic than anything off TCH. Now I have more respect for Boc as artists, but I shouldn't let that get in the way of admitting not everything they do is great, and that someone with less skill and knowledge can't make a better album.

I read that Ariel Pink would like to record in a proper studio - there's a danger there, he might lose that charm, in the same way TCH did.

[Cupz]

dude...

whoa!

[Green Pylon]

I disagree with two lives. TCH is an awesome album, love the new palettes used into it, and the best beats and rythms that Boc has created ever. When I heard the campfire first time, I though the same idea like you but now I know that M&M works are like one... the truth.

[YELLOW]

i agree with green pylon....

TCH IS layered and dense full of different swirling ideas...it is much more thought provoking in several ways that MHTRTC...when i first heard that album i thought it was great...a real work of art...but when i later got into geogaddi and some earlier stuff i realized how shoddily MHTRTC was put together...

MHTRTC is kind of lazy that some of the tracks were just from the back catalogue...it also doesnt flow that well in my opinion...pete standing alone into smokes quantity also makes me cringe....

[hGc]

The greatest musicians of all time are the ones who continually evolve--and never look back.

Boards of Canada's music does in a way look back - continually, because it's thriven on past memories and atmospheres. It just explores new facets of these musical memories every time.

[two lives]

That's cool if you think TCH is great, I'm certainly not saying it's poor - just disappointing, I've been a huge fan since '99.

I also know that many people agree that TCH is their worst to date.

Funny you mention Pete Standing Alone and Smokes Quantity and the word 'cringe' - how polar opposite to my opinion. Pete Standing Alone, especially at 3'30" is one of their finest moments, absolute pure boc, up their with bocuma. It has the essence of Bocuma, which the Sandisons' themselves have been content enough to decide it is 'Boards Of Canada Maxima' - oh how I agree. I even thought that before I even knew what the title meant.

As for rhythm tracks, TCH is pretty layered but too polished for my liking. Listen to the percussion in Pete Standing Alone (all organic found sounds processed into turquoisicity) and tell me that 'Peacock Tail' has better beats.

Also, Orange Romeda is a very simple track, very easy to work out what's going on 'layer-wise' but god damn that's a fucking good track, Boc at their finest. The first 3 nano seconds are enough to put you in a childhood flashback... TCH requires too much 'forgiveness' for me to really rate it. I also think the percussion in Peacock Tail is sickly sweet, how can it be that the writers of NLOGAX could produce anything so derivitive? Dayvan Cowboy and Peacock Tail are the worst tracks they've done in my opinon (also count in XYZ and Base Free), but that's not saying they're crap, I just hope that the headphase was a phase and they're gonna come back and surprise us. I've really tried with TCH, really tried, I've been very optimistic about it, and this is coming from a man who has REALLY studied all of their works, intimately. I think they took too long on it and it became too smooth and contrived. Making people, especially boc fans, wait for 3 years for an album means you'd better produce something refreshing and amazing - they did it with geogaddi, that album is an epic masterpiece.

Twoism is really simple and sparse, but also a fucking great album, pure undiluted foggy mystery.

I actually thought that the other TCH - trans canada highway - was better than headphase, especially Left Side Drive. Skyliner is OK but the drums could be better, they're loose in a way I don't like, and I love loose drums. The kick sounds horrible too.

When it comes down to it, MHTRTC had such an impact, it's going to be difficult to better it.

I think it's unfair to dub someone as lazy for taking stuff from their very underground back catalogue - it's all their work afterall, and Boc certainly aren't lazy, if anything, their constant pursuit to make great music may have caused a bit of harm in their later stuff. Maybe they need to do what the Incredible String Band did and go and sit under a tree in morocco learning an arabic whistle - there's more to music than making it.

What frustrates me the most is this - if I had the opportunity to sift through their entire archives of unreleased material, I would guarantee that I'd compile an album of their tracks that pure boc fans would prefer to TCH, and I don't mean by digging out all of the ROYGBIV clones. I swear that they must have some mind-blowing gems that are sitting on a shelf somewhere... let's hope they come out on the next release.

So just to conclude, my reservations against TCH does not mean I think they have lost it musically, I reckon they have enough gems to release 10 albums more interesting than TCH.

[Lone]

two lives - you have literaly put into words everything ive thought about TCH since 2005.. i really tried hard with it aswell.. dayvan is also my least favourite boc tune. the only bit that gave me the shivers on TCH was the bit in 'chromakey dreamcoat' when it breaks down at the end and that awsome dusty, purple melody comes in and fades away - if the rest of the album had more of that it could easily have followed 'geogaddi' quite nicely i reckon...

the thing i initially really liked about TCH was the idea that it was almost going to be boc's answer to a 'pop' record - i imagined a really summery, hazey, positive, beautiful, psychadelic pop record - the light at the end of the 'geogaddi' tunnel if you like, but i feel like thats what they were going for but got lost somewhere along the way - polished it too much (like what mr. two lives was saying)

i'm sure they know all this better than us lot could ever moan about anyway, so lets look foward to what they come out with next..

[Joebot Kill]

i totally agree with that you guys are saying. listening to boc as opened me up to many great artists. mostly things on the warp catalog, but also other electronic and more psychedelic music.
also, im curious, am i the only person in the world who started with MHTRTC, moved chronologically through their albums as they came out and still actually really likes TCHP? i mean each album has a different feel, when i want warm mellow summer music, TCHP is perfect for me. but it seems that most BOC fans and music critics really think its sub par. when i first got it i wasnt expecting too much since most of the reviews said "meh its ok." but i personally really enjoy it.

[turquoise70]

I'm a huge BoC fan, I always say they are my favorite band. But I've gotten into whole new worlds of music since discovering them, like many other Twoismers. The funny thing is, most of it isn't even moderately related to BoC, musically. Cause I still don't like artists like Bibio and if anyone puts on Aphex Twin I puke.

Oddly enough I was into like...nothing but really terrible Industrial music right before I got into BoC, and afterwards I spiraled off into god knows where. Nowdays while driving around you see me listening classic rock and country. Anyway you can see where I ended up in a different direction. All I know is that BoC had something to do with it; they tore me away from the likes of Skinny-Puppy-And-Nothing-But-Skinny-Puppy-All-The-Time.

I'm a huge fan of MhtRtC and yes I'm one of THOSE fans but I confess my dirty secret, I don't listen to the albums one at a time usually. I skip around. I might play a little Olson or Pete Stands Alone to start off, then maybe Oscar See Through Red Eye (BRILLIANT song in my opinion, say whatever you want about the overall quality of Campfire Headphase but that song alone is enough for me). Then maybe I'll cycle through a couple good BoC fakes that I like! Do a little Diving Station if I'm in the mood.

I think my favorite BoC tunes are consistently the tiny little vignettes, though.

Most of all, of what's been said in this thread, I agree that taste in music is relative. Often times I find the only reason I enjoy a song that I hated the shit out of before, is because I was "listening" for different things - a different sound, a different concept, a different mood, a different level of complexity. And I guess it seems reasonable to me to say that many people just aren't looking for a certain thing in music, while others are, and it can have nothing to do with some "objective quality" of the songs themselves. That's the only way I can explain how people like the music I make anyway

[boardsofdublin]

i totally agree with that you guys are saying. listening to boc as opened me up to many great artists. mostly things on the warp catalog, but also other electronic and more psychedelic music.
also, im curious, am i the only person in the world who started with MHTRTC, moved chronologically through their albums as they came out and still actually really likes TCHP? i mean each album has a different feel, when i want warm mellow summer music, TCHP is perfect for me. but it seems that most BOC fans and music critics really think its sub par. when i first got it i wasnt expecting too much since most of the reviews said "meh its ok." but i personally really enjoy it.

I started back in 98 too with MHT... Every release i got on the day of release.

In my opinion i think Geo is there best work and they will never beat it, its so dark and yet so light and everything inbetween. Sure i know when i heard MHTRTC first i was blown away but when Geo came out, they turned into mythical music gods in my eye, then twoism and hi scores where re-re-re-re-released and took me so much deeper into myself with the mix of geo two and hi. but then with campfire i just thought yeah its a great album in it's own right and i will listen to it every now and again but it just doesnt have the same hold on me. I think they may have listened to the fans after campfire for trans, thats all i will say on that note.

One thing i will say is peacock tail is the best track on campfire in my eyes. The rest of the album could be really be made by anyone else.

[Infinite E]

i totally agree with that you guys are saying. listening to boc as opened me up to many great artists. mostly things on the warp catalog, but also other electronic and more psychedelic music.
also, im curious, am i the only person in the world who started with MHTRTC, moved chronologically through their albums as they came out and still actually really likes TCHP? i mean each album has a different feel, when i want warm mellow summer music, TCHP is perfect for me. but it seems that most BOC fans and music critics really think its sub par. when i first got it i wasnt expecting too much since most of the reviews said "meh its ok." but i personally really enjoy it.

I started back in 98 too with MHT... Every release i got on the day of release.

In my opinion i think Geo is there best work and they will never beat it, its so dark and yet so light and everything inbetween. Sure i know when i heard MHTRTC first i was blown away but when Geo came out, they turned into mythical music gods in my eye, then twoism and hi scores where re-re-re-re-released and took me so much deeper into myself with the mix of geo two and hi. but then with campfire i just thought yeah its a great album in it's own right and i will listen to it every now and again but it just doesnt have the same hold on me. I think they may have listened to the fans after campfire for trans, thats all i will say on that note.

One thing i will say is peacock tail is the best track on campfire in my eyes. The rest of the album could be really be made by anyone else.

hit the nail on the head there.

Edit: I wasnt into boc that far back though... i was only 10 in 1998

[mechanismj]

I'm a huge BoC fan, I always say they are my favorite band. But I've gotten into whole new worlds of music since discovering them, like many other Twoismers...

BOC is the gateway drug.

[silo flame]

hit the nail on the head? what the fuck? "the rest" of campfire could not have been made by "anyone else".. i feel very alienated here all of a sudden

[Joebot Kill]

well, im going to go ahead and say geogaddi is probably boc's defining moment in my eyes. after that album (and the preceding ep) i thought of them in an entirely different light. and its easily my most played and favorite of their albums. i still remember driving home from school on a warrm spring day with the sun in my eyes, listening to the album like 3 times in a row. (plus the book packaging is beautiful)

but still, campfire headphase is way up there in my opinion, some may call it blasphemy but im going to put it equal with MHTRTC.... ok maybe 1 point lower. but still, i wouldnt bash it because it isnt as dark (they said specifically that they wanted to go brighter and warmer after geogaddi) or because dayvan cowboy has a music video (someone mentioned that in a thread, i forget if it was this one). music videos are just another amazing art medium (when done right). and the video for dayvan cowboy is downright fucking brilliant. long story short. boc is pretty damn amazing!

as far as getting into new music... autechre was one of the first bands i got into after listening to BOC... weird transition eh?

[volante]

I love Campfire.