____twoism

Might not be that controversial, but I think the whole "no contact with fans" thing is a bit pretentious. At least talk to us a little bit.

Papalon wrote:Might not be that controversial, but I think the whole "no contact with fans" thing is a bit pretentious. At least talk to us a little bit.

I dig what you're saying, but I've been thinking about this topic on and off lately and want to respond in order to process my own thoughts on it:
The "no contact with fans" thing is as essential to BoC as is their music, their album-and-otherwise artwork, etcetera ... it's part of their art because it is part of them as people.

The Reddit AMA is a good tester for this topic: a little while back, Daniel Lopatin (Oneohtrix Point Never) did a Reddit AMA; some of his answers were seen as dismissive and/or terse (answers in the vein of "It's cool" when asked about being signed to Warp) and some users seemed frustrated with his lack of engagement ... OPN may not be the best example, but I often see people frustrated with and/or ganging up on AMA celebrities / figures who give short, non-descriptive answers.

The AMA person in question may just be a short, non-descriptive answer kind of person ... or maybe they're going through a depressive period or are having a tough day (etc. etc. etc.).

Not every celebrity will come in to the AMA zone and play into Reddit's inside jokes, type out twenty paragraphs for each answer, etcetera ... it doesn't mean they're inconsiderate. It's part of their personality.

Extrapolating the AMA thing to the quote endquote "Real World": celebrities (and folks in general) philosophically have a responsibility to other people (read: empathy, or something like it) which is important and, understandably, valued.

However, not everyone (peers, superiors, celebrities, etc. etc.) will give you that.
Expecting it from everyone is perhaps unfair--especially when those people are under public scrutiny, admiration, etc.

If you really want to get to " " "know" " " an artist, you have to respect their boundaries and their idiosyncrasies as part of their form.

Some artists post Twitter updates every day ("New album coming in twenty days ! ! !") and some don't speak to press for twenty years and then just drop an album on yer head ... and everything in between ... and neither are doing anyone a "favor" or doing it "right."

So I've made this argument and I'm not 100% sure how I feel about it but it's an interesting conversation I want to have on here, especially relating to BoC who are flying high in the latter option I presented in the previous paragraph.

Here's a great Atlantic article about (curiously enough, but appropriate!) Frank Ocean, Harper Lee, and reclusive artists / expecting a lot from artists and being frustrated when they do not quote endquote "deliver":
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainmen ... st/494804/

The Campfire Headphase is their best album.
Tomorrow's Harvest was a massive letdown.

kurt_cocaine wrote:The Campfire Headphase is their best album.
Tomorrow's Harvest was a massive letdown.

Agree with the first one!

Second one I would've agreed on when the album was released, but like every BoC album it grew on me alot. The feel that it gives me I find absolutly genius.

What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

Valotonin wrote:What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

It's funny you mention Nothing is Real, because it's probably the only song on TH that that sentiment applies to. I think that track's a stand out in the album in terms of both intention and mood - it's deliberately nostalgic.
The recurring keyboard loop screams '80s American TV theme' to me, it's so perfectly done (one of BOC's purest moments of genius, in my opinion) that I was sure it was a sample (perhaps it is) and takes me straight back to being a kid, although not necessarily in a 'comforting' way, as I don't think that's the aim of the tune.

jcnporter wrote:

Valotonin wrote:What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

It's funny you mention Nothing is Real, because it's probably the only song on TH that that sentiment applies to. I think that track's a stand out in the album in terms of both intention and mood - it's deliberately nostalgic.
The recurring keyboard loop screams '80s American TV theme' to me, it's so perfectly done (one of BOC's purest moments of genius, in my opinion) that I was sure it was a sample (perhaps it is) and takes me straight back to being a kid, although not necessarily in a 'comforting' way, as I don't think that's the aim of the tune.

Deliberately nostalgic, but named Nothing is Real, deliberately delusional maybe ?

kurt_cocaine wrote:The Campfire Headphase is their best album.
Tomorrow's Harvest was a massive letdown.

Hehe. My opinion is the exact opposite of that.

Wildfire wrote:

kurt_cocaine wrote:The Campfire Headphase is their best album.
Tomorrow's Harvest was a massive letdown.

Hehe. My opinion is the exact opposite of that.

I feel the same way as you (it's my favorite album of theirs other than MHTRTC), but I understand that if TCH is either your favorite or what got you into them in the first place, TH is a harsh 180 from that sound and could be a bitter pill to swallow if you waited for 8 years expecting more of that same type of sound.

I think they should downsize to twoism length EPs so that they can explore more of a variety of emotions and subjects without it taking an eternity between releases to do so. As much as I love TH and how each track is truly a gem, it could have easily been abbreviated into an EP:
Reach for the dead - Cold earth - Sick times - Palace Posy - Nothing is real - New seeds - Come to dust - Semena mertvykh

Runtime - 34mins


I know a few good ones where left out but it wouldn't have taken as long. We would have got it in 2010 and we would already be on the brink of a new release, if not listening to new material.
Y'all can crucify me now.

arvy wrote:

jcnporter wrote:

Valotonin wrote:What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

It's funny you mention Nothing is Real, because it's probably the only song on TH that that sentiment applies to. I think that track's a stand out in the album in terms of both intention and mood - it's deliberately nostalgic.
The recurring keyboard loop screams '80s American TV theme' to me, it's so perfectly done (one of BOC's purest moments of genius, in my opinion) that I was sure it was a sample (perhaps it is) and takes me straight back to being a kid, although not necessarily in a 'comforting' way, as I don't think that's the aim of the tune.

Deliberately nostalgic, but named Nothing is Real, deliberately delusional maybe ?

Yeah, there's definitely a twist to it, the nostalgia of the tune contrasted with the speech in the background.

Good point jcnporter,
Also in my controversial opinion, Tomorrow's Harvest track lengths and timing play a big role in the album,
like for example the track lenght of Gemini 2:57 may be the sigh of unknown sister record of Tomorrow's Harvest, as we know the Warp catalogue number of Tomorrow's Harvest is 256,
and another weird theory, I was thinking how the last three tracks are connected...
New Seeds
Come to Dust
Semena Mertvykh
The seed may be the meaning of Human seed and coming to dust is some sort of body pleasure,
how long did usual human sex act take time? Maybe, not exactly how long this track lasts, but the pulse of it feets perfectly..
Just like they said in one interview, in Come to Dust you building some sort a temple and after it's taken away from you...after that is just a complete futility...

arvy wrote: Just like they said in one interview, in Come to Dust you building some sort a temple and after it's taken away from you...after that is just a complete futility...

I think that may have been lost in translation. The interview went more along the lines of 'At the end of new seeds you reach some sort of sanctuary and it is just taken away from you. We find the futility of that kind of funny in a way' But that is from memory and by no means a direct quote.

I get what people are saying about the nostalgia element of nothing is real. It does evoke a lot of memories. It was more the fact that people went so far as to call a lot of the tracks from TH 'comforting' and 'blissful' as if totally unaware of the negativity and nihilism floating around. I just couldn't get that.

Valotonin wrote:What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

I think you could replace TH with geogaddi and your statement would make just as much sense.

Tarkus wrote:

Valotonin wrote:What is the deal with people commenting the generic 'so comforting takes me back to childhood' on TH songs like Nothing is real etc etc. TH isn't like other Boc, man. Its delibrately provocative of fear and uncertainty and, in that respect, it fulfills its purpose very well. They had a goal with this one which was to make people think about certain subjects. I really honestly don't think that, despite respecting people's views, it is reflective of childhood or comforting or anything like that. That is what their earlier work does.

I think you could replace TH with geogaddi and your statement would make just as much sense.

Geogaddi is inherently creepy instead of bleak though. There is hope and humanity in Geogaddi at points which can make it quite comforting and creepy at the same time whereas TH feels like cold, hard logical reality and bleakness imo

Along with Led Zeppelin, who never did interviews for most of their careers and used symbols and occultism and backward masking, there was a band called The Beatles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

Most of the stuff I read on twoism is nerds who love all this stuff. It's all a load of old bollocks. They (BOC) sit and write the tunes, and quite possibly 'others' inject all the other mystical nonsense into their music. Because their music is ripe for interpretation and has a certain fanbase who will see so much wood for the trees a woodland glade becomes a huge fucking forest.

It's all good fun though.

warphead wrote:Along with Led Zeppelin, who never did interviews for most of their careers and used symbols and occultism and backward masking, there was a band called The Beatles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead

Most of the stuff I read on twoism is nerds who love all this stuff. It's all a load of old bollocks. They (BOC) sit and write the tunes, and quite possibly 'others' inject all the other mystical nonsense into their music. Because their music is ripe for interpretation and has a certain fanbase who will see so much wood for the trees a woodland glade becomes a huge fucking forest.

It's all good fun though.

This is actually one of my favorite conspiracies despite not believing it personally. It is indeed all good fun. I noticed when linking the strawberry fields video to the sample collection thread a few days ago that on the part that says 'Nothing is real' there is a shot of paul's face looking blank and I remembered about this whole thing. Some people actually have some pretty scarily legit evidence they bring to light at times though. His face did change a little bit but I always put it down to ageing. As for eyes, mine change colour slightly seasonally from green to grey/brown.

Music Has the Right to Children and Tomorrow's Harvest are meant to be played together (;

Valotonin wrote:

warphead wrote:The Beatles

This is actually one of my favorite conspiracies despite not believing it personally.

Have either of you ever watched The Winged Beatle?

lichtenberg94 wrote:Music Has the Right to Children and Tomorrow's Harvest are meant to be played together (;

Makes sense, similarities in the album structure, both have 17 tracks, possible synth-sound connection?

How about that, TCH is the bright side of TH and vice-versa?