____twoism

Mexicola wrote:I'd be more inclined to act like an adult, all dignified and calm, if my future and that of my daughter hadn't just been royally fucked up the arse by a bunch of Little Englander cockwombles. Sorry, I'm in no mood to have any truck with reconciliation. A line has been crossed.

It's not reconciliation, it's accepting democracy. Instead of calling for another referendum, people should be calling for a general election. The way to deliver the change that many in the poorer parts of the UK obviously want and to 'punish' the right-wing leavers is to vote in a left government to negotiate our exit.

Not that I have any idea what would be a good choice, the EU isn't all rose-scent and moonshine with some countries doing weird things lately. I'm actually a bit curious how this is going to work out.

Now seven of the shadow cabinet resign. RIP Corbyn.

jcnporter wrote:

Mexicola wrote:I'd be more inclined to act like an adult, all dignified and calm, if my future and that of my daughter hadn't just been royally fucked up the arse by a bunch of Little Englander cockwombles. Sorry, I'm in no mood to have any truck with reconciliation. A line has been crossed.

It's not reconciliation, it's accepting democracy. Instead of calling for another referendum, people should be calling for a general election. The way to deliver the change that many in the poorer parts of the UK obviously want and to 'punish' the right-wing leavers is to vote in a left government to negotiate our exit.

But that ain't going to happen. Yes we'll have a general election, which will then see the Tories romp home. It's become all too clear that the left are currently nowhere near getting elected. It hurts to say that by the way.

Mexicola wrote: But that ain't going to happen. Yes we'll have a general election, which will then see the Tories romp home. It's become all too clear that the left are currently nowhere near getting elected. It hurts to say that by the way.

I don't know. The turnout for the referendum was a surprise. I'm assuming most of the people in the North and Midlands who don't normally vote and voted leave are natural Labour voters, if they follow through with their anger in a general election, who knows.

All depends if the Tories cook the books again re Tory Election Fraud.

My form is, for the most part, pro-Brexit, and I had to sit in the corner seething with rage as they heartily chuckled away about their success, unaware of how much they've screwed up their futures.

I've never wanted to do something more than I want to punch Michael Gove in the bollocks right now. First you screw up GCSEs, then you ruin the country. Thanks bud

Christ, are the PLP about to self-immolate themselves by ousting Corbyn whilst having no mandate from the wider party itself? What is the point of this coup d'etat? Surely, whether you're a Blairite or not you would allow the dust to settle before causing even more instability. This isn't a case of striking whilst the iron is hot, but rather handing over unchallenged dominion to the Tories (even more so than now). Then again, that more or less is what a Blairite thinks deep down.. they just can't admit it. Wankers.

So if I understand it correctly from the news reports a lot of people where thinking this while voting?

• O Stay immigrants (& non native UK)
  O Leave immigrants (& non native UK)

The leave campaign played on the fears about immigration, which are mainly felt by the elderly, the poor and the ignorant. It became less a referendum about the economic benefits of EU membership and more a misdirected (some would say maliciously so) rebellion against the establishment. The sad thing is that people that voted with the left their whole lives have been turned, voting alongside some frankly very nasty and extremely dangerous right wing agitators.

The interesting twist to all if this is that now the result has come in to leave, it does appear that none of the main leaders of the Leave campaign seem especially keen to be the one to enact Article 50 which formally triggers the withdrawal process. It does increasingly appear that they didn't seriously expect to win and have no idea how to proceed. In other words, it's not entirely certain this hasn't all been a case of brinkmanship gone seriously wrong.

Either way, we're now the laughing stock of the world.

Mexicola wrote:The leave campaign played on the fears about immigration, which are mainly felt by the elderly, the poor and the ignorant. It became less a referendum about the economic benefits of EU membership and more a misdirected (some would say maliciously so) rebellion against the establishment. The sad thing is that people that voted with the left their whole lives have been turned, voting alongside some frankly very nasty and extremely dangerous right wing agitators.

The interesting twist to all if this is that now the result has come in to leave, it does appear that none of the main leaders of the Leave campaign seem especially keen to be the one to enact Article 50 which formally triggers the withdrawal process. It does increasingly appear that they didn't seriously expect to win and have no idea how to proceed. In other words, it's not entirely certain this hasn't all been a case of brinkmanship gone seriously wrong.

Either way, we're now the laughing stock of the world.

Mex is absolutely right, this is a great article based on what Mex says.

Has Cameron done a checkmate??

http://qz.com/717182/a-brexit-conspirac ... imself-in/

fujee wrote:Christ, are the PLP about to self-immolate themselves by ousting Corbyn whilst having no mandate from the wider party itself? What is the point of this coup d'etat? Surely, whether you're a Blairite or not you would allow the dust to settle before causing even more instability. This isn't a case of striking whilst the iron is hot, but rather handing over unchallenged dominion to the Tories (even more so than now). Then again, that more or less is what a Blairite thinks deep down.. they just can't admit it. Wankers.

fucking hell, i know right? not only that but they're getting all the help they need from the BBC. what's happening today? GBP is loosing 1c to the pound every hour, stock market trading is suspended for major banks, politicians on the leave side are making total pricks of themselves, and what story do they lead with? "CORBYN CRISIS" - because a bunch of petulant manchildren have thrown a hissy fit that their democratically elected leader wants to help people with tax money or something.

honestly, with the tories in disarray you'd think the PMP would put its issues aside for a minute to capitalize on all that. not to mention that there are a bunch of polls that have them ahead of the tories with the population. but no. these stupid cunts would rather lose the next election than win on a socialist ticket. frankly i think that tells you everything you need to know.

Except that so far, the great unwashed show no appetite for socialism. Two general elections, a Scottish Referendum and last weeks debacle show us this. The left find themselves on the horns of a dilemma. On the one hand, their argument is morally correct. On the other hand, Joe Public isn't listening. So what to do? Maintain socialist ideals in the hope that it'll somehow produce a different result in the end, or move nearer the centre ground now the Tories are lurching further right. Rock and a hard place isn't it?

Mexicola wrote:Except that so far, the great unwashed show no appetite for socialism. Two general elections, a Scottish Referendum and last weeks debacle show us this. The left find themselves on the horns of a dilemma. On the one hand, their argument is morally correct. On the other hand, Joe Public isn't listening. So what to do? Maintain socialist ideals in the hope that it'll somehow produce a different result in the end, or move nearer the centre ground now the Tories are lurching further right. Rock and a hard place isn't it?

The Scottish ref wasn't about socialism per se but about getting away from Westminister entirely, and it was close anyway. They elected the SNP which are about as social democratic as you were going to get before Corbyn, which leads me on to:

Before Corbyn, both the major parties were neoliberal. You can't extrapolate about the potential for the popularity of socialism from that. Corbyn's Labour increased their popularity despite constant attacks from centre-right MPs.

As for the centre ground, well Labour tried that in 2015 and it didn't go very well. People are angry, the political spectrum is widening again.

Brexit was a working class rebellion driven by almost 40 years of economic persecution, and unfortunately mediated by propaganda and misdirected at immigrants. Even the leaders of the campaign didn't think they'd win, even they underestimated just how far desperation will take people. It is more important than ever to expand socialist movements, to channel people's anger towards the rich, the rulers who put us in this situation after 2008 and profited immensely from it. Things won't just work themselves out, we have to make it work! And 'centrism' is most certainly no solution; Blair presided over a continuation of the sharpest rise in inequality ever and transformed Labour into the high and mighty, war-mongering, pro-business middle-class enclave it is today.

Fujee: I understand that it looks bad, but we've been expecting these MPs to strike ever since Corbyn got in. He is still massively popular with the membership (look at the latest polls), and he will be automatically on the ballot should a new leadership race begin. These MPs want to damage a Left Labour's election chances, and they have succeeded for now. If Corbyn weathers this - and I think he will - we will see a huge shakeup of the party. This is a great opportunity to build up speed unimpeded by Blairites. Join now! You don't have to be a traditional Labour supporter to join, this is about shaping the party into an effective force. Make your voice heard, after all, I don't see any revolutionary movement around the corner mate. This is our best chance, even if it is still bleak.

Don't get me wrong AB, I've no time for Blair or Tory-lite politics. I just worry that the working class aren't showing any signs of swinging left. If anything, they've gone the other way. Frightening frankly.

Lol wut, taking a look at nujij.nl gives the impression that some people really want to see the world burn.

The only really good thing to come out of this seems that there will be a good deal of material for Mock the Week and Have I Got News For You? (when it comes back, anyway)

Kind of like how Trump and Hilary are great for the late night programs over in the U.S.

I know, I know.
But hey, silver lining, right?

When the vast majority of Scotland votes to stay in the EU and those that brought up the thing in the first place, David Cameron, and those who wanted to leave, Farage, end up resigning in wake of what has happened... Its high time that another Scottish Independence referendum is called for as Scotland does NOT hold the same values as the English do and it has been shown with vote after vote, local elections and for the main one. It really gets me down that we are shushed like a kid trying to warn a policeman about something bad that's happened.

So Aerial Boundaries, when it comes to the Labour leadership do you think you'll vote for Corbyn, or do you have A Eagle in your mind?

(I'll get my coat)