____twoism

TaoTapeTao wrote:I think we're a plague and we wreak havoc wherever we go.

It's a two sided coin. We're brilliant and awful.

^ "a virus with shoes".

Been meaning to add my 2p into this thread for a while. The fact that I'm now doing so while sat in traffic on a bus is proof of the all-pervasiveness of communication technology.

As others have said, the amount of communication technology around us now is both a good and bad thing. On the positive side, well - I'm here. Discussing all sorts of things with complete strangers around the world, some of whom I would consider genuine friends now. All because of a shared interest in a band. Facebook means I can stay in touch with people who I might otherwise have drifted apart from (maybe sometimes with good reason, but when I left school at 16 no-one had mobiles or email, all people had was their parents' address and landline number! All it took was a move and a lost bit of paper and they're gone...), Twitter means I can communicate with anyone around the world about my interests and business, I can communicate directly with musicians and writers I like. If you told me aged 16 I'd be having a conversations with the guitarist of a certain indie band who I fancied, I'd have laughed (actually, I'd have probably just mumbled awkwardly and shuffled off, embarrassed).

The other side of this is the sheer amount of NOISE and digital clutter out there, and the requirement for everything to happen NOW. take a photo! Take another 10! Share them online immediately! I've been in a bar here in Edinburgh (a shiny haircut-type bar; I wasn't comfortable) once and watched a group of 5ish people spend the whole time taking pictures of each other, pulling "crazy" faces - clearly so they could post on Facebook what a wild night out they were having. What they weren't doing was actually having a night out - drinking, laughing, dancing, flirting, being silly. They were just acting out a performance of a "fun" night out. Very odd. Had a similar experience seeing Spritualized live a couple of years ago - during the climax of the gig, all feedback, White noise and strobes, this fella was sat dicking about on his phone. What happened to living in the moment and actually experiencing the world around you?

I really like technology and rely on it a lot. But last summer I went on holiday to Islay off the west coast of Scotland (look it up; it is heaven) with my family. We had no Internet access and no mobile signal - it was wonderful. As it happens, some friends of mine and Mrs_A_Northern_Soul were there at the same time, so we decided to meet for a coffee. To do so, our friends had to call the landline of the house we were staying in from a phone box in the village they were in as their house had no phone at all.

I think there is a bit of a backlash developing against this immediacy. As a photographer, I'm seeing a growing trend for "unplugged" weddings - bride and groom specify no photography from guests - so no iPhone snaps of the bride uploaded to Facebook there and then so the first pictures people see are the lovingly crafted pro shots.

Technology is wonderful, but there's always an off switch.

A_Northern_Soul wrote:We had no Internet access and no mobile signal - it was wonderful. As it happens, some friends of mine and Mrs_A_Northern_Soul were there at the same time, so we decided to meet for a coffee. To do so, our friends had to call the landline of the house we were staying in from a phone box in the village they were in as their house had no phone at all.

On Saturday, Mrs Mexicola and myself are off to a tiny place near Ardgroom in the South West of Ireland. No internet, no TV, probably bugger-all phone signal too. I'm excited and terrified in equal measure and like you I'm old enough to still see the internet, mobile phone and 24/7 TV as something revolutionary, rather than 'the norm'. It'll be interesting to see how we do, especially my Mrs as we're leaving Mini-Mexi at home with the outlaws so we can have a break. I feel all pioneering at the moment, but it could all go horribly wrong.

Equally, I also remember not having a landline at Uni. Had to walk 15 mins to a freezing payphone, wait while someone else used it and then brave the smell of stale urine to beg more £$£ from my parents.

On balance though, I think my attitude is best summarised by the Aussie comic Steve Hughes, who I had the pleasure of seeing live a week or so ago. He's early 40's I reckon. Bit like an Aussie Bill Hicks, only funny and looks like he should be in Slayer. 'Young people in the audience tonight, do you know why us old bastards are always moaning that 'It was better in our day'?? BECAUSE IT F**KING WAS!! GEEZ MATE WE'RE NOT F**KING IDIOTS!!!'

Yeah, pretty much that.

^ ah, enjoy. SW Ireland is beautiful.

You'll probably really enjoy the lack of 21st century communications (after the initial shock). We spent a lot of time on Islay listening to music, laughing, eating, drinking and playing with children.

Mexicola wrote: On Saturday, Mrs Mexicola and myself are off to a tiny place near Ardgroom in the South West of Ireland. No internet, no TV, probably bugger-all phone signal too. I'm excited and terrified in equal measure and like you I'm old enough to still see the internet, mobile phone and 24/7 TV as something revolutionary, rather than 'the norm'. It'll be interesting to see how we do, especially my Mrs as we're leaving Mini-Mexi at home with the outlaws so we can have a break. I feel all pioneering at the moment, but it could all go horribly wrong.

That's an incredible part of Ireland - you'll have a great time. I went on a cycling holiday around the Ring of Kerry a few years ago and even though it's the most 'touristy' bit of the south west, it was still something special.
There's something about the west coast, whether it be the south or Donegal to the north, that's like stepping back to a slower pace of life, I've always felt instantly more relaxed when I go there.
On a side note, if you can get to Kenmare you'll find some of the best restaurants in Ireland. I had what still ranks as the best meal of my life here -

http://kenmarerestaurants.com/mulcahys/

On topic, I'm also old enough to remember life with just 4 TV channels, no mobile and no internet. Every holiday I've been on, the internet (and often the TV) has been absent and they've been all the better for it.

jcnporter wrote:

Mexicola wrote: On Saturday, Mrs Mexicola and myself are off to a tiny place near Ardgroom in the South West of Ireland. No internet, no TV, probably bugger-all phone signal too. I'm excited and terrified in equal measure and like you I'm old enough to still see the internet, mobile phone and 24/7 TV as something revolutionary, rather than 'the norm'. It'll be interesting to see how we do, especially my Mrs as we're leaving Mini-Mexi at home with the outlaws so we can have a break. I feel all pioneering at the moment, but it could all go horribly wrong.

That's an incredible part of Ireland - you'll have a great time. I went on a cycling holiday around the Ring of Kerry a few years ago and even though it's the most 'touristy' bit of the south west, it was still something special.
There's something about the west coast, whether it be the south or Donegal to the north, that's like stepping back to a slower pace of life, I've always felt instantly more relaxed when I go there.
On a side note, if you can get to Kenmare you'll find some of the best restaurants in Ireland. I had what still ranks as the best meal of my life here -

http://kenmarerestaurants.com/mulcahys/

Looks good - thanks very much!

Mexicola wrote:I also remember not having a landline at Uni. Had to walk 15 mins to a freezing payphone, wait while someone else used it and then brave the smell of stale urine to beg more £$£ from my parents.

That actually sounds quite nice, in an odd way.

I'd kinda like to get rid of my cellphone and computer, and just make biweekly pilgrimages to the public library to check my email. I'll probably never do it, but it's fun to dream. heh.

/laptop off
/pianoforte out

This is an good article, sort of sums up my thinking on the direction new technology is taking us.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... l-be-awful

Some excellent comments below as well, such as -

But this article is not about technophobia per se, it is about the kinds of people behind the technology, and their social agenda. If only they were predominantly 30-something Trekkies working for a post-scarcity utopia, then a "joke" like Soylent would be funny. The truth is they're predominantly fucked-up Ayn Rand groupies who are starting to believe that the other 6.9'×10^9 people are just becoming kind of a drag and should be left behind. Starting with those icky poor fellow Californians ("white trash" as that glasshole called them).
Hence, calls from the Valley's money men like Balaji Srinivasan and Tim Draper to break up the state into two first-world countries and four virtually offshore 3rd-world labour pools.
Now, the Victorian industrialists were often vile people, too, but theirs was an age where both technology, and thus living standards, and society were slowly improving together. We're now into a stage where improving technology is being used to crystallise the deterioration of society instead. "Poor people can't afford food? Let's sell 'em this slime instead, and now if you'll excuse me I've got a date at a restaurant where I'll eat half of each serving and armed guards keep watch over the dumpsters..."

To me, the 'tech nerds' alluded to in the article are similar to bankers or politicians, in that they have different priorities and think differently, if you like, than the majority of people.

In my opinion most division, including the stress/mental illness/cognitive dissonance caused by modern civilisation is down to the direction of society, or what is considered good or successful, being 'dictated' by such groups. Not that such groups, or ideas, or aspirations, don't have a place, it's just that I wish we were better at selecting our 'leaders'.

I am currently reading 'Retromania' by Simon Reynolds, and I think it largely elucidates a lot of the cultural malaise and burnout we seem to be experiencing. I cannot recommend it enough, it speaks of abundance, the idea of the musical event, the notion of collections and digitisation and the harnessing of music as commodity rather than emotional anchor in our lives. It has really struck a chord with me and has come at the right time, as I have personally been experiencing a sort of regressive tendency to technology and its bastardisation of things which I enjoy. It has seemed to clarify a lot of ideas which have been circling in my head for a while now.

Honestly, the blurb does not do the book justice, I really think many of you would enjoy it and relate to it. Maybe give it a try, I picked up a second hand copy for about 2 quid.. best buy i've made all year..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... retromania

fujee wrote:I am currently reading 'Retromania' by Simon Reynolds, and I think it largely elucidates a lot of the cultural malaise and burnout we seem to be experiencing. I cannot recommend it enough, it speaks of abundance, the idea of the musical event, the notion of collections and digitisation and the harnessing of music as commodity rather than emotional anchor in our lives. It has really struck a chord with me and has come at the right time, as I have personally been experiencing a sort of regressive tendency to technology and its bastardisation of things which I enjoy. It has seemed to clarify a lot of ideas which have been circling in my head for a while now.

Honestly, the blurb does not do the book justice, I really think many of you would enjoy it and relate to it. Maybe give it a try, I picked up a second hand copy for about 2 quid.. best buy i've made all year..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... retromania

Sounds interesting. On it.

His writing style can be a little digressive - hence some reviews - but I quite like that, you almost get a collage of the issues and peripheral ideas going on around the crux of the theme. See what you think, would be good to get your opinion Mex.

fujee wrote:I am currently reading 'Retromania' by Simon Reynolds, and I think it largely elucidates a lot of the cultural malaise and burnout we seem to be experiencing. I cannot recommend it enough, it speaks of abundance, the idea of the musical event, the notion of collections and digitisation and the harnessing of music as commodity rather than emotional anchor in our lives. It has really struck a chord with me and has come at the right time, as I have personally been experiencing a sort of regressive tendency to technology and its bastardisation of things which I enjoy. It has seemed to clarify a lot of ideas which have been circling in my head for a while now.

Honestly, the blurb does not do the book justice, I really think many of you would enjoy it and relate to it. Maybe give it a try, I picked up a second hand copy for about 2 quid.. best buy i've made all year..

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Retromania-Pop- ... retromania

Retromania is great, Simon Reynolds is one of my favourite writers. I feel exactly the same way, it sums up a lot of what I've been thinking myself.
On similar subject matter, I've just finished 'Ghosts of my Life' by Mark Fisher, which is a collection of his writing as himself and blogging as 'k -punk' who Reynolds references a few times. I heartily recommend it.

Edit to add - I forgot I'd written quite a lengthy review of Retromania on Amazon (as 'Shipbuilder')! So rather than regurgitate the same thoughts here....

http://www.amazon.co.uk/product-reviews ... Descending

Looks great will check it out, thanks

I am not sure I am interested in some of the other books Reynolds has authored, but this was recommended to me by a friend, and it has been top notch so far. I like how he easily mixes psycho-analysis and philosophical ideas into the book. The section where he discusses the article about the obsession with the iPod was particularly good/scary. The book is kinda depressing though, it makes you think we are kinda doomed in many ways.

Old news by now, but here's this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 10730.html

I wish people would just do things in moderation.

Take A photo of the band, or A SHORT video. There's nothing wrong with a little memento. But 100 pictures from just one show? You're not a fucking photographer getting paid to take pictures. You paid money to go listen to a band play music.

And that could go for everything people post online these days. Just make it a more occasional thing.

Really the only reason I have facebook these days it to keep track of bands

The camera phone is possibly one of the worst technological implementations of all times. Its accelerated so many abject qualities of post modern society.

nick47 wrote:Take A photo of the band, or A SHORT video. There's nothing wrong with a little memento. But 100 pictures from just one show? You're not a fucking photographer getting paid to take pictures. You paid money to go listen to a band play music.

I used to be very guilty of Over Documentation Of Show- itis. But then I started doing photography on film, and I couldn't afford to take 10,000 photos of the same thing. It's really taught me to slow down and made my photography consistently better.

Deactivated Facebook today, so for anyone maybe wondering where I've gone.. I haven't deleted you. I already feel better about life haha.

fujee wrote:Deactivated Facebook today, so for anyone maybe wondering where I've gone.. I haven't deleted you. I already feel better about life haha.

I'm thinking about it. There was a quote that stuck with me by... someone, can't remember. But they were talking about the way that on social media people tend to post about the positive things in their life and how it leads to so many people getting that Cinderella syndrome, y'know? "Everyone else is having fun but me". Meanwhile, everyone else is thinking the same thing.

But anyway the quote was that with Facebook, you run a risk of judging someone else's highlight reel by your behind-the-scenes footage. And it's true, it takes a big effort not to do that. That's before you add up all the other "big data" reasons for avoiding it too.