____twoism

re-phaelam-ed wrote:You do know that tape offers a kind of free compression. you can go hot without the shitty clipping digital crap. (fuck digital). so, speculating, if this is just stuff done for fun and friends...the tunes are most likely not mastered and may have diff levels. i don't know if your from the day of mix tapes made for the girl you were after...but those would have tracks that were louder than others or mixed real shitty.

I'm afraid we're not talking about the same thing. First off, BoC seems to have been very careful about compiling and mastering tracks right from the start, since those tapes do sound surprisingly homogenous and clean. I don't think they'd be that careless about levels and such. Secondly, the frequency spectrum covered by a track has nothing to do with recording levels. "Louder" doesn't necessarily mean "more frequencies". It is true that cassette tapes don't have a perfect frequency response and there will be distortion and loss of frequencies, but they won't be consistent with what you get from MP3.
(and I may be alone in this, but I love digital. I'm all for digitising the hell out of everything)

re-phaelam-ed wrote:and sometimes tapes got caught or twisted and you'd get little gaps or stutters. tape was so far from perfect. but perfect sucks (over compressed garbage).

Yes, tapes can be unreliable, but I think that those kinds of problems would lead to clearly audible artifacts, like the music going on hyperspeed for a fraction of a second, stuff like that. The thing is, the FLAC files do not only sound consistent to MP3 files in general, but they sound consistent to the specific MP3's provided on a dependable source, which are the highest quality collection available so far.

I also think you're seriously mixing up concepts there. I'm not aware of anyone that associates overcompression with perfection, or vice versa. Instead, dynamic squashing is fiercely fought by music enthusiasts today. Personally, I'm not really concerned with the idea of "perfection" in music, because it doesn't exist, neither in the analogue nor the digital realm. In fact, in that sense, analogue and digital are very similar: both introduce distortion, artifacts and overall loss of quality if they're not used very carefully. But still, I'm all for having music in the highest quality, or at least closest to the source material. That's why I really wished these tapes were legitimate.

If OTV2 also cuts off at 16k like it seems based on all the spectrals posted, I suppose we can conclude that to be fake as well. I don't think it's impossible at all that these tracks were lossy mastered, but probably it's not the case now.

Now there's just one puzzle to solve.. Who would go to such lengths to make such a convincing fake that can only be proved illegitimate through spectral analysis.

Basefree wrote:If OTV2 also cuts off at 16k like it seems based on all the spectrals posted, I suppose we can conclude that to be fake as well. I don't think it's impossible at all that these tracks were lossy mastered, but probably it's not the case now.

Now there's just one puzzle to solve.. Who would go to such lengths to make such a convincing fake that can only be proved illegitimate through spectral analysis.

I suppose we'll find that out tomorrow when I get ahold of the bastard who I bought them from. Although, I really can't rationally conceive who they would have gotten them from, since they certainly weren't made there. And just to clarify, so everyone can understand this time, *I did NOT create these tapes, nor was this an attempt to troll.*

I'm really sorry guys. I guess some people like the recordings, others don't. It's more about the music quality at this point. I'm disappointed I couldn't have shared the real deal with you. (Personally, I'm still clinging to the small slice of hope that OTv2 is real. NEVERTHELESS.)

NEUROMUTE wrote:

Basefree wrote:If OTV2 also cuts off at 16k like it seems based on all the spectrals posted, I suppose we can conclude that to be fake as well. I don't think it's impossible at all that these tracks were lossy mastered, but probably it's not the case now.

Now there's just one puzzle to solve.. Who would go to such lengths to make such a convincing fake that can only be proved illegitimate through spectral analysis.

I suppose we'll find that out tomorrow when I get ahold of the bastard who I bought them from. Although, I really can't rationally conceive who they would have gotten them from, since they certainly weren't made there. And just to clarify, so everyone can understand this time, *I did NOT create these tapes, nor was this an attempt to troll.*

I'm really sorry guys. I guess some people like the recordings, others don't. It's more about the music quality at this point. I'm disappointed I couldn't have shared the real deal with you. (Personally, I'm still clinging to the small slice of hope that OTv2 is real. NEVERTHELESS.)

ill do a little eq and re up them if anyone likes. i tried a little eq on the stuff you upped and it sounded awesome. if no...ill leave it alone.

I am looking forward to your next tape announcement.

Maybe a friend will find Catalog 1, 2 & 3 in a dumpster, or Hooper Bay and Play by Numbers in a dusty old trunk in a loft.

re-phaelam-ed wrote:

NEUROMUTE wrote:

Basefree wrote:If OTV2 also cuts off at 16k like it seems based on all the spectrals posted, I suppose we can conclude that to be fake as well. I don't think it's impossible at all that these tracks were lossy mastered, but probably it's not the case now.

Now there's just one puzzle to solve.. Who would go to such lengths to make such a convincing fake that can only be proved illegitimate through spectral analysis.

I suppose we'll find that out tomorrow when I get ahold of the bastard who I bought them from. Although, I really can't rationally conceive who they would have gotten them from, since they certainly weren't made there. And just to clarify, so everyone can understand this time, *I did NOT create these tapes, nor was this an attempt to troll.*

I'm really sorry guys. I guess some people like the recordings, others don't. It's more about the music quality at this point. I'm disappointed I couldn't have shared the real deal with you. (Personally, I'm still clinging to the small slice of hope that OTv2 is real. NEVERTHELESS.)

ill do a little eq and re up them if anyone likes. i tried a little eq on the stuff you upped and it sounded awesome. if no...ill leave it alone.

Could you re up please ?

NEUROMUTE wrote:

Basefree wrote:

NEUROMUTE wrote:
What is CDDA?

It stands for lossless audio in this context. AFOT seems to get checked 100% CDDA as well though, so I suppose it's not a sign of anything then.

Ah, okay.
Unrelated note: If AFOT is nearly a positive forgery, and OTv2 is fluctuating between real and fake (Schrödinger's Tape,) what else could I do with OTv2 to provide evidence? Also, I received BoC Maxima in this lot, but I didn't even care to mention it because we already have a .flac rip. And why do some tracks on AFOT have gaps, and some do not? So many questions, sorry guys.

Could you do a rip of your boc maxima tape to see the difference with the other one ? It will be very interesting !

jlgui wrote:

NEUROMUTE wrote:

Basefree wrote:It stands for lossless audio in this context. AFOT seems to get checked 100% CDDA as well though, so I suppose it's not a sign of anything then.

Ah, okay.
Unrelated note: If AFOT is nearly a positive forgery, and OTv2 is fluctuating between real and fake (Schrödinger's Tape,) what else could I do with OTv2 to provide evidence? Also, I received BoC Maxima in this lot, but I didn't even care to mention it because we already have a .flac rip. And why do some tracks on AFOT have gaps, and some do not? So many questions, sorry guys.

Could you do a rip of your boc maxima tape to see the difference with the other one ? It will be very interesting !

I'll do Red Moss.

Hello, very interesting. Yet to listen. I compiled the rareboc.ax.lt versions and as a result I have basically every version of these songs floating around my external drive. I will listen and report when I get home.
There is an interesting story about the gaps on afot which might be relevant, I guess I'll find out soon.

jlgui wrote:

NEUROMUTE wrote:

Basefree wrote:It stands for lossless audio in this context. AFOT seems to get checked 100% CDDA as well though, so I suppose it's not a sign of anything then.

Ah, okay.
Unrelated note: If AFOT is nearly a positive forgery, and OTv2 is fluctuating between real and fake (Schrödinger's Tape,) what else could I do with OTv2 to provide evidence? Also, I received BoC Maxima in this lot, but I didn't even care to mention it because we already have a .flac rip. And why do some tracks on AFOT have gaps, and some do not? So many questions, sorry guys.

Could you do a rip of your boc maxima tape to see the difference with the other one ? It will be very interesting !

Red Moss:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5a5qd9awp3gdh ... 0Moss.flac

Techboy wrote:Hello, very interesting. Yet to listen. I compiled the rareboc.ax.lt versions and as a result I have basically every version of these songs floating around my external drive. I will listen and report when I get home.
There is an interesting story about the gaps on afot which might be relevant, I guess I'll find out soon.

What's the story about the gaps?

I don't think the gaps are supposed to be there, ie. it wasn't mastered that way. There's this odd old link by Techboy http://www.twoism.org/forum/viewtopic.p ... 174#149174

Apparently it's not lossless, but it's without even the minor pauses that Neuro's rip had. No idea if any edits were done to it. Sad there's no side B.

I might be off-topic but do not wish to create another thread for one simple question: is the 'sdesis' remix made by Helios available for download somewhere?

Basefree: Yes, edits were done, that was the point. The reason there is no side B is because the high quality rip of side B ends with original nlogax :C

^ This is also why I can concusively tell you that the AFOT rip in this thread is fake. there is an artefact that was present in the aforementioned High quality rip of AFOT visible in this flac rip up until sequoia, when it disappears! and then the quality of the songs goes sharply downwards.

red moss is significantly lower quality than the flac rip we already have even by listening and without spectra.

Also I can tell you conclusively that the OTv2 rip is fake and just a tape recording of the upload at http://rareboc.ax.lt - some tracks are from a 192kbps mp3, some tracks are from 160kbps mp3, and this matches with the changes in quality between songs on the flac rip.

neuromute, you're gonna have to either find a better rip than rareboc.ax.lt online to impress us or perhaps even *actually* buy these tapes, because at the end of the day, it is taking you like probably a full day or two to produce these fakes and yet because know it's fake when you upload it you must also know, by logic, that somebody will be able to prove that.

Techboy wrote:Basefree: Yes, edits were done, that was the point. The reason there is no side B is because the high quality rip of side B ends with original nlogax :C

^ This is also why I can concusively tell you that the AFOT rip in this thread is fake. there is an artefact that was present in the aforementioned High quality rip of AFOT visible in this flac rip up until sequoia, when it disappears! and then the quality of the songs goes sharply downwards.

Also I can tell you conclusively that the OTv2 rip is fake and just a tape recording of the upload at http://rareboc.ax.lt - some tracks are from a 192kbps mp3, some tracks are from 160kbps mp3, and this matches with the changes in quality between songs on the flac rip.

edit: also, red moss is significantly lower quality than the flac rip we already have even by listening and without spectra

How did you(?) edit the A side? I think it's beautiful work with the gaps. I'd appreciate a side B rework like this, if somebody could do it. Fernie maybe? It should of course be kept in lossless format to prevent any transcoding from happening.

What you wrote about OTV2 was my initial concern as well, but if you listen to the Buckie High that Neuro uploaded earlier, there are some differences (hi-hat sound and channels, if I remember), which kind of put and still puts me in the "don't know" area. His Maxima tape was already proven fake earlier, based on the low quality artwork, so it's not worth anybody's time.

GH wrote:I am looking forward to your next tape announcement.

Maybe a friend will find Catalog 1, 2 & 3 in a dumpster, or Hooper Bay and Play by Numbers in a dusty old trunk in a loft.

He did. The track listing was, if I remember correctly:
1. Magic Timeline.
2. Magic Window.
3. Magic Timeline.
4. Magic Window.
5. Magic Timeline.

Basefree wrote:

Techboy wrote:Basefree: Yes, edits were done, that was the point. The reason there is no side B is because the high quality rip of side B ends with original nlogax :C

^ This is also why I can concusively tell you that the AFOT rip in this thread is fake. there is an artefact that was present in the aforementioned High quality rip of AFOT visible in this flac rip up until sequoia, when it disappears! and then the quality of the songs goes sharply downwards.

Also I can tell you conclusively that the OTv2 rip is fake and just a tape recording of the upload at http://rareboc.ax.lt - some tracks are from a 192kbps mp3, some tracks are from 160kbps mp3, and this matches with the changes in quality between songs on the flac rip.

edit: also, red moss is significantly lower quality than the flac rip we already have even by listening and without spectra

How did you(?) edit the A side? I think it's beautiful work with the gaps. I'd appreciate a side B rework like this, if somebody could do it. Fernie maybe? It should of course be kept in lossless format to prevent any transcoding from happening.

What you wrote about OTV2 was my initial concern as well, but if you listen to the Buckie High that Neuro uploaded earlier, there are some differences (hi-hat sound and channels, if I remember), which kind of put and still puts me in the "don't know" area. His Maxima tape was already proven fake earlier, based on the low quality artwork, so it's not worth anybody's time.

Just to keep up with all of this:
BoC Maxima : FAKE.
A Few Old Tunes : FAKE.
Old Tunes Vol. 2 : TO BE DETERMINED.

A bit disappointed, but better to know than not.

I probably shouldn't impulsively post like this, but I will for the sake of doing so.
I DID NOT MAKE THESE TAPES. I understand you all likely dislike (and distrust) me because of the Closes incident, but I can't change that, and I'm not trying to. If it's really necessary for all of you, I'll post the number to the recording studio, and you all can call and confirm. I'm a bit pissed at how, because of one incident, I'm now hated, and not to be trusted. I understand the psychology behind that as well, but it's totally fallacious. This time is a GENUINE fuck up that I didn't cause, and it's now, for me, become a matter of principle which I'm going to do anything to maintain. Contrary to Music Is Maths advice, let's not make the past inside the present.

EDIT: Wow, that was a lot more heated than it was intended to be...

GH wrote:I am looking forward to your next tape announcement.

Maybe a friend will find Catalog 1, 2 & 3 in a dumpster, or Hooper Bay and Play by Numbers in a dusty old trunk in a loft.

That happened to me once, but I was so disappointed it was Hooper Bay and not Closes that I just threw the damn thing back out again.

NEUROMUTE wrote:I probably shouldn't impulsively post like this, but I will for the sake of doing so.
I DID NOT MAKE THESE TAPES. I understand you all likely dislike (and distrust) me because of the Closes incident, but I can't change that, and I'm not trying to. If it's really necessary for all of you, I'll post the number to the recording studio, and you all can call and confirm. I'm a bit pissed at how, because of one incident, I'm now hated, and not to be trusted. I understand the psychology behind that as well, but it's totally fallacious. This time is a GENUINE fuck up that I didn't cause, and it's now, for me, become a matter of principle which I'm going to do anything to maintain. Contrary to Music Is Maths advice, let's not make the past inside the present.

EDIT: Wow, that was a lot more heated than it was intended to be...

if you can PM me the name (rather than number) of the recording studio and a person to ask for then i'm happy to call and back up your side, then.

if anyone is gonna do "some eq" they may as well do it on the rareboc.ax.lt compilation.

also the gap-removal effort was in Goldwave, which allows you to edit the waveform sample-by-sample, therefore removed the gap and manually adjusted the waveform not to have any sudden changes in level (resulting in the pop). took less time than it sounds like it would take!