____twoism

I've been lurking around these forums on and off over the years and have yet to make a post so please pardon my first post status for a moment here.

While I understand the attitude and frustration of the fans and the brothers themselves over people potentially posting ("leaking") tunes heard at the listening party, I think many of you are failing to understand the larger historical picture of this bands progression and the importance of these events to be recorded from a historical standpoint. Not that it means much in this context, but I study and research jazz and if there's ever a more zealous collectors community in music as devoted to the music they love as BoC fans, it's jazz collectors. There's nothing more frustrating than knowing that a gig took place, when and where and yet having zero record of it. Same goes for radio and television appearances.

I understand the value of respect and I admire it myself, but I also greatly value archival work and accurate record keeping so that future generations can experience this music to the fullest extent that they possibly can. When we collectively shun moments of documentation we are promoting the severing a piece of history forever. Yes, the quality is shitty and obviously not "meant" to be recorded for accurate listening, but there IS value in preserving moments like this for potential future discoveries we either don't know about or maybe care about now, but most likely will down the line. After all, have we not gleaned greater knowledge/understanding through other live recordings/acts of BoC over the years?

Apologies for the wall of text and potentially over-dramatization but I felt it necessary to open up this discussion in light of seeing some tempers beginning to flare up in this regard.

I feed off the breadcrumbs left behind by artists as stingy and cryptic as this. Can't wait for this release! Never thought I'd actually see the day.

I think a big difference between what you are saying and what actually happened is that this actually isn't a gig. It's a playback of material that will be released in the very same form in just under two weeks. That too me is quite different.

Heath wrote:I think a big difference between what you are saying and what actually happened is that this actually isn't a gig. It's a playback of material that will be released in the very same form in just under two weeks. That too me is quite different.

This.

Heath wrote:I think a big difference between what you are saying and what actually happened is that this actually isn't a gig. It's a playback of material that will be released in the very same form in just under two weeks. That too me is quite different.

nailed it

the people who got to experience it in person were handed a gift that should be treasured and the majority did but those who decided to ignore the bands wishes and post it is like shitting in the mouth of the person who gave you that gift

Right, it was a pure playing of the record, but I'd still argue it has value outside of the music itself. The setting, listening environment, materials used, people invited, people hosting and the infrastructure behind setting up the event was all very interesting and will undoubtedly be useful information for future documentation on WARP, BoC, or behind-the-scenes biographical information.

*Edit* You'd be surprised how much information can be gleaned from a live event, even from just an audio record of it (let alone film).

Fractology wrote:Right, it was a pure playing of the record, but I'd still argue it has value outside of the music itself. The setting, listening environment, materials used, people invited, people hosting and the infrastructure behind setting up the event was all very interesting and will undoubtedly be useful information for future documentation on WARP, BoC, or behind-the-scenes biographical information.

*Edit* You'd be surprised how much information can be gleaned from a live event, even from just an audio record of it (let alone film).

It does have value outside the music itself. review this forum over that time on monday if any of you don't agree.

Fractology wrote:Right, it was a pure playing of the record, but I'd still argue it has value outside of the music itself. The setting, listening environment, materials used, people invited, people hosting and the infrastructure behind setting up the event was all very interesting and will undoubtedly be useful information for future documentation on WARP, BoC, or behind-the-scenes biographical information.

*Edit* You'd be surprised how much information can be gleaned from a live event, even from just an audio record of it (let alone film).

Definitely, but that's probably why they allowed people to record the first three tracks. That's enough to get a feel for the atmosphere and see what was going on. That, combined with all the vine videos and photos and blog/twitter posts about the event seem like enough archival information given the nature of this event.

As others have said, that argument MIGHT hold weight if it was a live performance.

Other than the experience of physically being there (wonderful as it would be), the actual music is no different to the album we'll all get our clammy mitts on in a week and a half.

For that reason I don't think it's unreasonable at all for the band to ask for no recording beyond 3 tracks. Why would they want their imminently released work leaked early via some sub-par* quality recordings on YouTube? Be patient, you'll hear it soon enough as it was meant to be heard.

* - with all due respect to Tonx and other forum members who broadcast the requested 3 tunes.

AND I'll add, even if someone did record the whole event, if they wait twelve days until the album is released then nothing is being lost. They don't want inferior recordings out prior to the album.

As someone who archives Cuban music, I find any performance or event that the artist/group played a roll in is necessary to capture/record. And as someone who is interested in such things as field recordings (Ethnic and otherwise), even just playing back an album for the first time with natural elements captured is important.

At this point, I don't find anything wrong with Warp/BoC wishing for those to not release and full recordings of the album before it's released.

But, I think events like this in the future will be important to avid fans and followers. I mean, look at the images of the ticket stubs to the Warp Lighthouse parties that BoC played at. Those scans are highly important to you folks and myself included. It is an artifact of something that happened that a few experienced.

A_Northern_Soul wrote:As others have said, that argument MIGHT hold weight if it was a live performance.

Other than the experience of physically being there (wonderful as it would be), the actual music is no different to the album we'll all get our clammy mitts on in a week and a half.

For that reason I don't think it's unreasonable at all for the band to ask for no recording beyond 3 tracks. Why would they want their imminently released work leaked early via some sub-par* quality recordings on YouTube? Be patient, you'll hear it soon enough as it was meant to be heard.

* - with all due respect to Tonx and other forum members who broadcast the requested 3 tunes.

Then why have a pre-release listening party at all? Do you really think the brothers thought that no one would actually record more than the 3 songs? I am sure they thought that someone may do it regardless of their intended wishes. They know how easy it is to document these things these days with all the social media, etc.

IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

North by North wrote:IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

perhaps so, and I am not arguing for people doing it, but at the same time I don't think anyone can be flabbergasted that more tracks were recorded and put on youtbube, etc

North by North wrote:IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

I don't think this is an issue after the album is released. It's totally understandable and warranted before an album is released to request that no more audio is released prior to the release date.

Again, I think capturing the moment (wind, voices, etc.) is interesting and reminds me of reading interviews with BoC discussing listening parties with friends in the early days. It's no different than that in the end, however, it's been documented.

Morris wrote:

North by North wrote:IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

I don't think this is an issue after the album is released. It's totally understandable and warranted before an album is released to request that no more audio is released prior to the release date.

Again, I think capturing the moment (wind, voices, etc.) is interesting and reminds me of reading interviews with BoC discussing listening parties with friends in the early days. It's no different than that in the end, however, it's been documented.

Yeah- though I'd still feel odd about making it public unless the boys or Warp came out after the release and said it was OK. Just like if the bros handed me a copy of Old Tunes Vol 3 and said please don't post this- I wouldn't post it, even after if it were to be released one day (btw if the brothers read this- PM me if you'd like to give me some exclusive tunes- because I respect you and your wishes!

North by North wrote:IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

i agree...i even felt guilty hearing gemini and white cyclosa

North by North wrote:

Morris wrote:

North by North wrote:IF you are going to ignore the bands wishes and record after 3 tracks, it's one thing to keep it to yourself to forever preserve the moment (the blaring speakers and wind blowing, etc), but to post it and make it public is the real shit in the mouth to me.

I don't think this is an issue after the album is released. It's totally understandable and warranted before an album is released to request that no more audio is released prior to the release date.

Again, I think capturing the moment (wind, voices, etc.) is interesting and reminds me of reading interviews with BoC discussing listening parties with friends in the early days. It's no different than that in the end, however, it's been documented.

Yeah- though I'd still feel odd about making it public unless the boys or Warp came out after the release and said it was OK. Just like if the bros handed me a copy of Old Tunes Vol 3 and said please don't post this- I wouldn't post it, even after if it were to be released one day (btw if the brothers read this- PM me if you'd like to give me some exclusive tunes- because I respect you and your wishes!

It's a very good point. I wouldn't post a copy of Old Tunes Vol. 3 if given it by the bros either.

On a side note, it's always interesting to me to think of how much unreleased material artists have that share with their artist/musician friends that never sees the light of the day. I've heard Prefuse 73 recordings on Carlos Nino's Spaceways radio show that I've only heard there and nowhere else. As an avid P73 fan, it makes me wonder what else is out there. The same goes for early Flying Lotus tracks played on Andrew Meza's BTS Radio show that are now taken down.

Hey, one question: are the full videos going to be uploaded to the net after the release day?

Just wondering...

"Then why have a pre-release listening party at all?"

- to allow an in-the-moment experience for fans, to allow fans to meet up.

The photos look fantastic (the choice of location, combined with the old truck & airstream were a perfect choice). So I'm sure it was a great experience; I just think that in recording and - crucially - posting online the whole album; that's a huge betrayal of trust.