____twoism

*insert obligatory apology because I'm sure there is likely a similar thread somewhere around here*

So recently I've found myself fascinated by the grainy kinda distorted quality of Super 8 and such, and I've been wanting to mess around with some older film or something and be all artsy. Is there some sort of equipment I could buy that anyone here could recommend to a total noob?? Cheapness is also a nice thing. Thanks!

Can pick up a neat little VHS-C camera for dirt cheap these days, I do a lot of filming on one. Not super-8 grainy quality, but certainly lo fi and washed out - you can also manipulate VHS easily which is great.

Thanks for the recommend, I will look into it!

fujee wrote:Can pick up a neat little VHS-C camera for dirt cheap these days, I do a lot of filming on one. Not super-8 grainy quality, but certainly lo fi and washed out - you can also manipulate VHS easily which is great.

I bought my first (functional) VHS-C camcorder a few months ago. It's just fantastic for getting that lo-fi videotape look without having to carry around a huge, unwieldy full-size VHS camcorder. I also use Hi8. All the analog video footage I record is copied to VHS in EP mode, then the original VHS-C or Hi8 tape is reused.

Fujee, is any of your VHS-C footage available online? I'd love to see what you're doing!
OverTheHorizonRadar, let me know if you have any questions. I've been experimenting with analog video degradation for a while now and have learned a lot.

I'm currently looking on ebay for possible cameras.

One thing I am curious about is how messing with videotape as opposed to actual film will be. I'm also kinda curious about messing with the motor speed maybe, seeing if I can get some weird effects that way

OverTheHorizonRadar wrote:I'm currently looking on ebay for possible cameras.

Excellent! One thing to keep in mind is that if the camera comes with a battery, the battery is probably dead. Batteries expire, and if you're dealing with a camcorder made in say 1993, the battery will long since have gone to battery heaven. You can get generic aftermarket/replacement batteries from places like atbatt and batteriesplus. Google the model of the camcorder you choose and likely one of those sites will have batteries available for it.

I'd recommend going with a model made between, oh, 1991-1996 or so. Some later models began going digital in terms of how they processed everything and that didn't mix well with your/our desired analog tape look. For example, some models would replace dead space on a tape (which would normally be shown as VHS static) with a blank blue screen, which just looks icky. Of course, if you use a VHS-C adapter and play the tapes in a VCR, this will be less of a problem. Just something to consider though.

Off the top of my head, I'd suggest you look for the JVC GR-AX series of VHS-C camcorders, or perhaps the Panasonic PV-120 or RCA Small Wonder.

OverTheHorizonRadar wrote:One thing I am curious about is how messing with videotape as opposed to actual film will be. I'm also kinda curious about messing with the motor speed maybe, seeing if I can get some weird effects that way

That could turn out very interesting!

In terms of actually messing with tape, I have a box of about 30 VHS-C tapes I bought off eBay that are old stock from about 1987-early 90s I think. I've taken all the tape out of one of them and creased it along the bottom, which introduced some interesting distortion. The camera doesn't quite know what to do with it, though, so I think I'm going to have to get a VHS-C adapter and play it in a proper VCR in order to get it to behave like I want it to.

edit: see also

Cool, thanks for all the info! There's some thrift store type places around I'm also gonna check out, I'll keep an eye out for the ones you mentioned too

I have a pretty nifty super 8 cam that I picked up many years ago, and is collecting dust in my closet. You want it? I'll send it, check your PMs.

zeitgeist wrote:I have a pretty nifty super 8 cam that I picked up many years ago, and is collecting dust in my closet. You want it? I'll send it, check your PMs.

...if he doesn't, I do

I don't know if you're still searching, but a while back I was pretty set on one specific 16mm camera. I scoured for a krasnogorsk 3 for about 2 years, never really making up my mind whenever I found a decent deal on one. They usually range about 200 dollars, however I've never found a deal on developing the film that didn't make me squirm at the cost.

Personally though, I'd say if you were set on it, to experiment with super 8 as everything from the cost to the accessibility of the equipment will be cheaper. The quality won't blow you away, but in terms of getting really hazy, old film looks, it'll do the job.

Another thing you could do if you want to experiment with film, but don't want to deal with getting familiar with the really precise settings for exposure/focus or crazy costs, you could always buy a roll of cheap blank film leader and have some fun making crazy designs or soaking the leader in different staining materials for some really awesome, old-school experimental stuff. I had a blast doing this kind of thing because it was super cheap and you can achieve some really great footage with strange materials. It was posted on this site a while ago, but that's how Stan Brakhage did a lot of his work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVNWq3gOBl4

One thing I would like to say about film, and the different methods of converting it to a digital form, is that you absolutely don't have to go through a specialist to do this. If you have access to a film projector (make sure it's the correct size projector) say either through people you know, or even by using a college's equipment, project it onto a decent white surface and film the projection with a decent digital camera (make sure it's set to 24 frames per second to match the film speed). It sounds like such a cheap thing to do, and a lot of people groan at the thought, but it's honestly not that bad if you just pay attention to the framing, focus, and the lighting in the room.

If you are really passionate about this sort of thing, I find that half the fun is learning where you can cut costs and experiment with simple resources.

i agree with the above post. film transfers today are just too expensive and film is getting even more expensive since its days are numbered (well, 35mm and IMAX are still kicking but with the Phantom shooting 10K+ frames per second - folks are abandoning ship).

a decent used Bolex 16mm is a good choice too - i think thats what Neil Krugg used in Reach for the Dead if i remember correctly? i do prefer a real aged look from a vintage rig (versus those added using filters in post) - but its a labor of love. best of luck!