____twoism

Who here might be interested in hearing a covers album of highlights from Old Tunes and R35TT? Granting that it's quality stuff? IE good production, good performance, and a passion for the music. I've thought about doing such a covers album for at least a few years. I really think it would be cool if BOC themselves just re-released their best copies, or maybe even a reworking of that material, but I think we know how much of a likely prospect that is.

Like many others, much of the material from these collections is some of my favorite from BOC, or it's right on par with some of their officially released stuff. Some of the songs from OT/R35TT could probably make a top 10 favorite BOC list, if I could even narrow down such a list. For example, "I Will Get it Tattooed" ...I don't know if I have the words right now, to express how precious that song is to me. And to think that the brothers seem to prefer that it never be heard by the world at large? All due respect to the brothers, and their view of things, but a song like that is fucking gold, along with a majority of that material, IMO. But I can see their view, perhaps, that the material from that time shows a... less developed BOC, I guess, as composers? I can KIND OF see that in SOME instances lol, but for me, like probably most here, the good from OT/R35TT vastly outweighs the..whatever.

So anyway, I think a covers album could be cool/fun to do. I mostly want to hear these songs with cleaner production and whatnot. I know many find the demo-esque nature appealing in some regard. For me, it's more the songwriting itself that I love; the melodies and overall composition. The demo-esque quality of the bootlegs has certainly never dissuaded me from listening to the material about as much as MHTRTC, but nonetheless, I think it'd be cool to hear that stuff with more refined production of the likes of their officially released stuff.

That's not to say I'm the best suited to materialize that idea. I'm an amateur producer, but a musician of 20 years now. What I will say about my abilities is this: for the past year, I get up every morning at around 4-6 a.m. and I basically work on recording/producing music until I have to get ready for work at 2 P.M. lol, so all of the weaknesses I might have as an amateur producer--I'm constantly working to improve upon. I also don't use, or attempt to use the production methods that BOC use. IE I do use digital effects, but nearly everything in my music is hands on instrumentation: guitar, bass guitar, synth keys, flute...etc. The only thing that isn't hands on per say, is the drum programming; although it involves a midi pad, and I use EZDrummer, which samples real drum playing.

Doing these covers is something that's going to happen. The only questions for me, are how extensively am I going to do it, and how much will I prioritize it, time wise? As I've got a shit ton of my own material I'm working on, and other covers, too. So, the feedback I might hear from BOC fans will influence how much of a priority I might make this project, but there's at least a handful of songs that I'm absolutely doing; just a matter of time.

Currently this is best work I have to offer of this prospect, a cover of Zander Two that I started on this past week:


There's more work I want to do to it; namely some tweaks to the percussion, which is not my strongest aspect, and getting some of the volumes balanced better. One pretty cool thing to note though, I think, is that I use a Yamaha CS reface for my synth playing. Which I read somewhere, that BOC have used a Yamaha CS on at least some of their stuff. And I think what I have, is basically the same synth in a new vessel (?).

Some other songs I've started on:
Sequoia
I will Get it Tattoed
A 08
B18

Overall list I'm thinking about (order undetermined):
5-9-78
Boqurant
Lick
Music for Pylons
Mukinabaht
Finity
Staircase Whip
A 01
A 12
A 13
B 01
B 02
B 09
B 11
B 12
B 16
B 20
Spectrum
She is P
Northern Plastics
Orange Hexagon Sun
Buckie High
Iced Cooly Beatnik
Alpha Rainbow

I'm really itching to do 5-9-78, and finish Sequoia....then again, I'm itching to do a lot them, and all kinds of other shit. Of course, I would wanna have Sequoia, Boqurant and 5-9-78 play in succession in the tracklist, as they appear on OT 2. I'm interested in other ideas, too.

These don't represent every one of my favorites. For example, Davie Addison are a couple of my favorites, but I'm more interested in reworking songs with multiple instruments. I won't necessarily do all those songs either lol, but maybe, and maybe others. What do you guys think of that list, and the overall concept?

I would release it all as I intend to release anything I do: free to download, or optionally name your price.
My current draft of Zander Two is free to download, and I hope someone out there enjoys it

I think it would be way more fun if it was a collaborative effort. I would gladly be a part of that!

Cool idea! I agree with bungler666 it would be awesome as a community effort, too. There are a lot of musicians on Twoism.

The R35TT tracks will be some of the best, I think. Lots of interesting instrumentation in there. A few of them I would almost classify as post-rock.

If we do a collaboration, I claim B04

Cool, thanks for the feedback

I was thinking of the prospect of making it collaborative effort, too, and I'm certainly not opposed to partaking in it in that way.
My only caveat, is that I wouldn't necessarily confine myself to it lol. Like, I'd include my tracks on the tribute, and I'd love to hear what others might put into full blown covers, but I might also have my own versions separately, but it depends. There's some that I just really want to do, regardless....some of the ones high up on my list. I also really like for albums to be cohesive; cohesive instrumentation, textures, production qualities..etc. I'm sure others here probably appreciate that sort of thing, too. And that aspect can certainly still be done as a collaborative project; just more complicated.

But I'd absolutely be down for that effort. Gotta run to work, or I'd say more, but I'd love to hear anymore thoughts.

Here's an important point to get the ball rolling. How about we post our ideal tracklists? I have a loosely defined idea of mine, that I'll get to later. Of course it doesn't have to be limited to what I posted, and it could potentially be a double album...etc.

I'd like to have a tracklist that takes after how BOCs own tracklists are. For example, most of their major albums begin with a vignette song, and often end with a really ominous track, like Corsair.

lol wow this is interesting to see, i literally have been working on a boqurant remake for days now perfecting the synths and i've got it down to a T almost just some timing issues

by the way about your zander two cover, i think you could use HERCs Abakos to replicate the opening synth better

mansin has already covered i will get it tattooed

Perhaps we should do a separate thread for this potential collaborative effort?

garrettwaded wrote:Cool, thanks for the feedback

I was thinking of the prospect of making it collaborative effort, too, and I'm certainly not opposed to partaking in it in that way.
My only caveat, is that I wouldn't necessarily confine myself to it lol. Like, I'd include my tracks on the tribute, and I'd love to hear what others might put into full blown covers, but I might also have my own versions separately, but it depends.

Being that you're organizing the project, you can always curate the versions that end up on getting added to it. That way you can ensure a kind of sonic consistency, include the versions you work on, etc.

SamuraiDrifter wrote: Being that you're organizing the project, you can always curate the versions that end up on getting added to it. That way you can ensure a kind of sonic consistency, include the versions you work on, etc.

Only if the community wants to elect me as such a curator Which is a role I'd be happy to take on, and I've got the love for this music, and the obsessiveness for music in general to organize a quality collection, but I imagine many here would feel the same about themselves, and I wouldn't doubt it either. I've been reading threads here since got hooked on BOC in 2013; I know how much people here love BOC's music. Side note to that: I know for many getting hooked on BOC in 2013 makes me newbie, relatively speaking lol, but I will say that BOC quickly became my favorite name in music..or my favorite band, if you will, but I'm putting them up against all solo artists, band leaders..etc. So I don't say 'favorite band' lightly, because declaring a favorite band was something I had long given up doing until I found BOC. Besides BOC, I don't think I could even make a top 10 list of favorite bands; there's too many that I love and have obsessed over. For me, my favorite band list would be BOC at #1 and probably like, 50 other bands tied for 2nd lol.

BOC has remained an easy call for favorite in all 7 years that I've listened, and I've realized something since I've started producing and really buckling down on composing my own full songs that's probably part of why I continue to regard them as such, which is that I really relate to BOC as composers in some fundamental ways; in some ways I differ, but namely their prioritization of melody over other aspects of songs is something I relate to; their proclivity to create music that's very pure/authentic in the sense that it genuinely doesn't try to fit into any mold or time period, or try to be anything more than what it wants to be as an individual song, if I can make such an observation. I feel that aspect is maybe most apparent on OT/R35TT, appropriately. I also relate to their tendency to write vignettes.

So I'm obsessively passionate enough for the role, but I imagine if we're gonna make it a big, community project, we'll probably want to put things to votes. I've got a lot of ideas, though, to that end, and my own ideas for the album (that we can hash out and vote on). I'm sure many of us will want to do things our own way, and we'll also agree on a lot, too. And I think we can all honestly sort of have both. I would like to cover every single one of those songs that I listed...at SOME point lol, it's a lot, and I'm working on lots more, but I want do it. I'm more eager to do..IDK..about an EP's worth of songs, or maybe like 7-10 that I'm really itching to do, including some vignettes. But I can't rightfully override covers of the same songs that other people create without a vote or something. What I will do, is create all the covers that I feel like regardless, and I would encourage everyone else to do that to their heart's content, and perhaps one thing we might end up voting on, is whose covers, or which even versions from individuals end up making the cut (?). For example, I for one, intend to cover around that many songs in the relative short term, but maybe what ends up happening, is a offer up 7-10 covers (feels a little ambitious lol) to the community, and maybe after we all vote, only 4 of them make the cut...or maybe only 1; we'll have to see how many get involved, for one thing. I'm fine with that prospect, because I'm happy to make my covers regardless of how they get released. So maybe we can all create as many covers as we want, present them to the community, and democratically decide what the album shapes into.

Which gets me to where I'll respond to Zephyr Method in part..

My approach to covers is not necessarily making covers that are exactly the same as the original, although I tend to analyze originals as if I'm working to that end. I like putting my own spin on things; materializing my own ideas for variation etc, and often times alternate instrumentation. But I also like to retain fundamental aspects; namely the overall FEELING I get from a song. I like to try to highlight aspects of songs that particularly evoke an emotion in me. I also like the idea of creating multiple versions too, though. You mentioned "I Will Get it Tattooed," Zephyr. There's no way I'm not completing my own cover(s) of that lol, but I also HAVE to hear the cover you mentioned..where do find it? I'm actually gonna probably do several versions of that, because I've thought of playing the melody for that on several instruments, and I can't decide which one I'll like more lol. I'm gonna do one with the melody played on guitar. Love how that sounds; I do it with a couple notes played as harmonics, so they ring out. I've also wondered how it would sound on flute. And I like how it sounds as a sine wave on my analog synth. I also play the bass with a bass guitar, but I might do versions with it played as a synth as well. I should note that the guitar has been my primary instrument most of my life, btw, although keys have been easy enough to get into, and I've gotten especially into synth keys since I got this Yamaha. So that also addresses what you were suggesting about the intro to Zander Two, Zephyr. I'm pretty happy with playing it on my analog, but the goal wasn't an exact replica aesthetically; more so about hitting all the same notes, and creating the same vibe, or the vibe that I interpret. But again, I'm down for making multiple versions, and we could even end up doing collaborations on individual songs. Like, if you wanted to just insert your take on that intro synth into my overall cover, that might be cool. I could send you a track of my cover with that part omitted for you to record over, or a track of just the beat to record with..etc. many options there. And in the end, we could all ultimately vote on the preferred version(s) of songs. There could even be an outtakes collection of different versions of songs. We could note all due credits in the end, including hypothetical collaborations like that.

Here's something I like to do that would certainly debatable: I sometimes like the idea of tweaking how a song is composed somewhat; namely stretching the duration of a song, or a part of the song out, but this can be tricky to do in a complimentary way, more so with some songs than others. "I Will Get it Tattoed," for one, is a song I've always wanted to be a bit longer; longer than the version on "A Few Old Tunes" but I've also been unsure on exactly how I would stretch it out. But again, multiple versions. On the other hand, something like that can flow very easily/naturally with some songs. Someone mentioned Solarium in another post, which I wasn't even thinking of covering, but I instantly heard a stretched out version in my head that seems obviously, where it would begin in the style that we hear it on Old Tunes II, with the beat obscured, and then probably right around the 22 second mark where it ends (on my copy at least) the beat would come out of obscurity, probably out of a lowpass, and groove in the forefront with the motif, with the second melody coming in and out, or maybe with some variations there..etc. Actually, I just found a couple good cover/remixes on youtube; maybe you guys have heard. They both sample the original. I'd do it differently; recreate everything for one, but I thought those were pretty dope, too.

Another thing we're probably gonna need to talk about if it's collaborative, is the topic of 432 tuning Which I'm not sure how you guys feel about that topic, but playing Boards of Canada was just the push over the edge for me to decide to play all my own music/covers in 432, after tuning my guitar to 432 for certain BOC songs, and then just not wanting to switch back. However, to my ears I'm hearing some BOC songs in 440, and some in 432...maybe some are in a gray area; I'm not sure. But I now like to do everything in 432 regardless. BOC played Zander Two, in 440, I think, but I covered it in 432. Sequoia, I believe is in 432, and it was the very song that I had switched my tuning for again when I decided to finally stay with it.

So in summation, I think we're probably gonna want to hold some votes, perhaps more than once for some things. Like, I think the first thing we probably want to start considering, and put to a vote after we talk about it a bit, is our ideal tracklist. Which might be a single album length, or maybe a double. I'm open to either, but I'll post my loose idea as if it's one long ass album next. But maybe we begin with our ideal, then see what the community produces over the course of whatever period of time, and then maybe we eventually vote on the tracklist again, informed by what covers we have to choose from.

But these are all just ideas that, along with my covers, I submit to the community humbly.

OH! And how about a hypothetical title? I've thought of calling it something like 'A Few old BOC Covers"
I also had a more personal idea that's very subjective: Pastel Skies...just because OT/R35TT makes me think of that cold winter scene, when the skies take on those pastel colors. Or even something like Pastel Skies: A Few old BOC Covers. But I'm not at all married to those title ideas; the title isn't of crucial importance, and I don't expect to blow anyway away with that super cool title idea lol. The Pastel Skies thing is very subjective; probably mostly to do with the time period when I discovered BOC. Interested to hear other ideas, though, and perhaps other subjective experiences that people might associate with the music.

So here's my current, personal, pending tracklist:

json to geojson

Don't worry about the numbers, though: 1-99. I just numbered it like that so it'd be easier to rewrite the order as I test out the tracklist flow.

There's more that I'd maybe wanna include; hard to narrow down, when I love practically every song. There's a handful from Old Tunes Volume II, namely, that I'd probably put in there, although some of them are pretty perfect already and/or I don't currently have ideas for a new take, or for how to enhance them, like Kiteracer 2 or Northern Plastics; those are really beautiful to me. Maybe Northern Plastics could use some more clarity from a cover. Old Tunes II side B might be my favorite of all the collections.
I'd also propose that we stick to songs that are exclusively found on Old Tunes/R35TT. IE nothing that was also put on BOC Maxima, and obviously none that later went on major releases, but that's something we could vote on too, I guess. Maybe exceptions could be made for Boc Maxima tracks that BOC themselves never re-released, like they did with 'Everything You Do Is A Baloon,' or 'Chinook' with the alternate percussive ending; no need to rework those, IMO. On the other hand, Red Moss wasn't re-released to my knowledge, and any copy I've heard has that same older sound. It's a favorite of mine from Maxima. But any case, it hasn't been my intention to include any Maxima stuff, but something the community might wanna hash out regardless of my vision for this.

I'm pretty content with this, but there's a few I might swap. I like 'I Will Get Tattooed' as a closer, but I had also put it after Mukinabaht, and before Spectrum. I'd also potentially like to include Mansel, and I'd probably put it somewhere in that area, probably after Zander Two, although I feel like Mansel could use a little something more, which it could get from a cover, like a little more layering, maybe. Or maybe just a new production of it bring up some aspects enough to that end, but that's just my opinion.

And as I said before, I would aim to stay true to the spirit of BOC and make a tracklist like we think they would.
-They almost always begin an album with a vignette: Wildlife Analysis, Into the Rainbow Vein, Ready Let's Go.
-They often end with something ominous (or at least that's how it feels to me) like Corsair, Semena Mertvykh, and One Very Important Thought has a bit of an ominous vibe, but it's more subtle and beneath the surface of the more prominent...dutiful vibe(?).
-Although an ominous closer is not always the case. Campfire Headphase has one near the end, with Slow This Bird Down for instance, but it ends on a more warm, sentimental note.
-Which is my final point on this, that they seem to often include some of those warm, sentimental tracks near the end like Tears From the Compound Eye, Constants are Changing, Farewell Fire, Over The Horizon Radar, Open the Light, Olson...etc.
-I love both of those moods, and I think they both make for a good, climactic end, and build up to an end of an album, but I some of the other moods complement that climactic build up, like the nostalgic feeling I get from B18, which is near an end, or a perhaps more lighthearted, but interesting vibe from a song like, Lick, also near an end. So hopefully that gives some insight to my thinking on that. What do you guys think? I'm not really thinking of any ominous songs from OT/R35TT that would make a great closer, IMO. There's some ominous ones for sure, like House of Abin'Adab, but I could hardly see it as a closer; feels more like a prelude, or just an earlier spot on an album. So I'm thinking more of that warm, sentimental with putting 'I Will Get it Tattoed' on my pending list, with B12 providing a more ominous tone somewhat near the end, and a little bit with A13..or maybe just a moody tone with that one, but I'd maybe play around with the list of everything after 5-9-78 in particular.

Does it show that I'm an obsessive music fanatic? Holy shit I've been sitting here, typing too much for one more morning. I need to go actually play some shit lol. Love to hear everyone's thoughts, though. Peace

I'll put your proposed tracklist in a playlist and give it a listen! I'm really glad you included Solarium, that's one of my favorite BoC interludes ever. I wish it was longer, but that's also part of the magic.

I think one suggestion I'd make as well is that we could include some live unreleased tracks, because those are some of the ones I'd like to hear the most. ATP-02, ATP-07, Spiro, Echus, and the Warp10 closing track just to name a couple.

SamuraiDrifter wrote:I'll put your proposed tracklist in a playlist and give it a listen! I'm really glad you included Solarium, that's one of my favorite BoC interludes ever. I wish it was longer, but that's also part of the magic.

I think one suggestion I'd make as well is that we could include some live unreleased tracks, because those are some of the ones I'd like to hear the most. ATP-02, ATP-07, Spiro, Echus, and the Warp10 closing track just to name a couple.

Thanks for your consideration
I concur about Solarium,and the concept of really short tracks in general. What I've got in mind for that would probably still be relatively short; 2--maybe 2.5 minutes. I feel like it'd have a similar energy; starting with the same lofi feel, but instead of segueing into another song, it would segue into it's own groove, with a louder beat, and probably some bass.

I dig the idea of some live stuff, too. Maybe we could think about a separate little odds and ends type thing of that sort of stuff? We'd have to get the speculated 'Noatak'in there. I feel like so many people would be vying for that, that there'd have to be collaboration on that single track. I think a remake of that could be dope as fuck, though. There's a good remaster of it on YouTube. That track sounds like a horror movie in a song.

Another idea I was just thinking of, is maybe there could be sort of a head producer, or producers. A couple benefits to this..
-The cohesiveness I mentioned before; particularly production qualities; volume, overall tone, atmosphere..etc Might still be somewhat complicated if there's several head producers, but still, making things somewhat more organized.
-Perhaps more importantly, because I think this could please the most BOC fans who are also musicians, is that having head producer(s) could get musicians involved who might not have the capacity to produce full blown covers that include various instruments. You know, people might be really good at playing keys/synth or any number of instruments, but don't have the resources to create quality drum tracks, or to mix...etc. I for one, would be happy to make drum tracks for songs, and whatever else I'm playing for a given song, send a rhythm track over to any given musician, they can record their part(s), send it back to me, and I'd feed it into my FL Studio project. From my past experience, this would be appealing to me.

I just happen to sorta luck out in the past year, having enough money to purchase EZdrummer with several expansion packs, FL Studio signature edition..etc. With those and all my instruments: electric guitar, acoustic guitar, bass guitar, analog synth, flute, and a ukulele..at this point, time is pretty much my only limitation.

I've got another one for you guys. Spent this morning figuring out all the parts, making the beat, and producing my first draft for "Lick" took about 6 hours; not that that should impress anyone, because it still needs work to sound up to standard; it's a bit sloppy, but still, I can make this shit happen lol. Maybe I'll upload the first draft, but idk. Might wait till I get some better takes.

I've often thought about doing a cover of "Mansel".
I love that song dearly, and I sort of feel bad for this singular criticism (nitpick?) - but the snare sound that starts half way through really bugs me. The frequency range it occupies is kind of ear-piercing, so it takes me out of the laid back and dreamy headspace that the rest of the song has going on.

soundxplorer wrote:I've often thought about doing a cover of "Mansel".
I love that song dearly, and I sort of feel bad for this singular criticism (nitpick?) - but the snare sound that starts half way through really bugs me. The frequency range it occupies is kind of ear-piercing, so it takes me out of the laid back and dreamy headspace that the rest of the song has going on.

I wouldn't feel bad. It would seem that the brothers themselves have harsher judgements for all this material if they never wanted it released. I never really noticed what you're talking about with the snare; I don't think it really bothers me. It is pretty high pitched, though, and I more often opt for softer snares in my own productions, or stuff like sidestick hits. Also, does it bother you from any copy of it you've heard? I used to have a different rip or something, of Old Tunes II B, and it would clip really bad during some of the louder snare hits in Zander Two; really ruined a dope ass song, but it was just whatever copy I had.

In any case,for me, things like that are the whole reason I want to do this project. In general, I usually want to do a cover either when I think there's an interesting, different take on a song, or with old BOC, taking something really beautiful, but imperfect--even if for nothing more than being rough, second hand copies--and then trying to materialize the potential we might imagine. I'm pretty forgiving and take the good with the bad when there's aspects I like in music. Old BOC is far more to love IMO, and I continue to hold it in high regard..basically to nearly the same degree as I hold the rest of their stuff but there's little aspects here and there to nitpick. But it all makes for good covers project, I think.

So you're a musician Soundxplorer? Do you play drums and/or make beats? Or synth/keys/anything else? We could collaborate on Mansel if need be. I could make a beat for it, and you could play whatever parts you like and/or vice versa. If percussion isn't your craft, I could send you.. probably a hundred different snare options to choose from just from the ezdrummer expansions that I have alone lol, which are all made with a high standard for quality.

BTW one of the synths in Mansel--the sort of atmospheric one--sounds very much like synth I hear in one or more of the Boc Maxima songs; wonder if it's from the same time period.

Guys what if--and perhaps this is likely wishful thinking lol--but what if a covers album were made that moved the brothers to consider putting out all the highly sought after pre-Twoism albums? Or even a proper release of Old Tunes/R35TT. Probably a long shot, but who knows.

I went ahead and uploaded my the first draft of my "Lick" cover:


Or my general page, as I'll probably replace that 1st draft soon:
https://soundcloud.com/garrettwaded

But I have to stress that it's gonna be improved upon; gonna get back to work on it after this post. I spent a lot of time yesterday figuring out all the parts, putting the beat together, and with production in general, so I didn't spend a whole lot of time playing each of the parts; a couple of which are fairly challenging. At least for a guitarist, who's relatively new to keys. I know some of the timing is sloppy. The first part sounds sort of anxious, if that makes sense. Nonetheless, I'm excited to share a preview of what I'm working on. I really wanna do this thing. I'm gonna do more takes on all three synth parts (I used a bass guitar to play the bass). I'm gonna try different synth settings, and I'm open to suggestions, or even collaborative takes. Here I used a sine wave for the first part (it's all from the Yamaha CS reface), a square wave for the sort of atmospheric part, and I think I used a saw for the final melody the song builds up to.