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Smokes · Post by **Smokes** » Mon May 02, 2011 3:40 am

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ArbitersGround · Post by **ArbitersGround** » Mon May 02, 2011 4:15 am

That is very cool. $369 looks a bit too pricey, but if I had that I'd definitely find it useful.

Kinski · Post by **Kinski** » Mon May 02, 2011 9:52 pm

you can't reproduce such things digitaly. it's a rookie mistake. if it was so easy, people would ditch amps and analog in general and just use guitar rig and emulators. buy yourself a tape delay, you can find used ones for about the same price, and have the real deal. cheers.

or make one yourself - http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/0 ... y-mac.html

Pantheon · Post by **Pantheon** » Tue May 03, 2011 2:19 am

£20 will buy you a 3 headed reel to reel recorder.
Thats all you need to get a tape echo machine.

Cryabetes · Post by **Cryabetes** » Tue May 03, 2011 4:32 pm

not to mention it's more or less the same thing as the 20 second 'talking greeting card' recorder kit from radioshack.

nsputnik · Post by **nsputnik** » Thu May 05, 2011 6:19 pm

It is not the echo people are looking for, but the perfect BoC/Bibio warble sound. I have been looking into this for a while. You can't even get it with a simple vibrato effect. Vibrato has a constant and cyclical pitch modulation while tape warble is occasional decrease and then increase and then back to normal playback rate that occurs when you do not have a perfectly round pinch roller on a tape machine. I think this is why the pedal needs to record it and then play it back. I don't think this effect can be achieved in real-time.

clipped · Post by **clipped** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:46 am

Kinski wrote:you can't reproduce such things digitaly. it's a rookie mistake. if it was so easy, people would ditch amps and analog in general and just use guitar rig and emulators. buy yourself a tape delay, you can find used ones for about the same price, and have the real deal. cheers.

or make one yourself - http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2008/0 ... y-mac.html

9] Has real clocked-analog recording with no analog-to-digital conversion.

esselfortium · Post by **esselfortium** » Fri May 06, 2011 7:07 am

Kinski wrote:you can't reproduce such things digitaly. it's a rookie mistake. if it was so easy, people would ditch amps and analog in general and just use guitar rig and emulators. buy yourself a tape delay, you can find used ones for about the same price, and have the real deal. cheers.

You're kidding.

Cryabetes · Post by **Cryabetes** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:12 pm

nsputnik wrote:It is not the echo people are looking for, but the perfect BoB/Bibio warble sound. I have been looking into this for a while. You can't even get it with a simple vibrato effect. Vibrato has a constant and cyclical pitch modulation while tape warble is occasional decrease and then increase and then back to normal playback rate that occurs when you do not have a perfectly round pinch roller on a tape machine. I think this is why the pedal needs to record it and then play it back. I don't think this effect can be achieved in real-time.

actually you can. Signal chain should be a Boss PS-2 [on pitch shift mode] or PS-3 [on pitch shift + detune mode] or a DOD IPS33. set the shift for -1 semitone. place a vibrato or chorus afterwards [on a rather slow LFO]. blend in dry signal around the entire chain. For best results, use a chorus/vibr that has some sort of randomisation feature, or use multiple ones set to different depths and rates, then put the effected signal into a slight overdrive [tubescreamer springs to mind], then a limiter or non-dynacomp-y compressor. then blend in the dry signal.

if you'd want the dips to be more occasional, use the Morley volume pedal that has an effects loop as your blender and putz with it during the performance.

soundxplorer · Post by **soundxplorer** » Fri May 06, 2011 3:44 pm

Kinski wrote:you can't reproduce such things digitaly.

I love analog gear, having owned plenty of vintage and modern analog synths, including modulars. But I just picked up a new pedal - the Strymon El Capistan - it is a digital recreation of a tape echo effect, and I think it sounds excellent. It does the BOC sound quite well, emulating tape "defects" like warble, crinkle and over-bias. It also has a cool sound-on-sound looper feature. Just record a couple of loop passes of anything, then slow it down with the Time control = instant BOC 70s-vibe blurry background ambience. It's like the Instagram photo app except for sound.

robotanalysis · Post by **robotanalysis** » Fri May 06, 2011 5:15 pm

Get a good analog delay like this model along with a Mutron Bi-Phase and skip along the sky as your head roundabouts the clouds for hours.

nsputnik · Post by **nsputnik** » Sat May 07, 2011 2:15 am

soundxplorer wrote:
Kinski wrote:you can't reproduce such things digitaly.
I love analog gear, having owned plenty of vintage and modern analog synths, including modulars. But I just picked up a new pedal - the Strymon El Capistan - it is a digital recreation of a tape echo effect, and I think it sounds excellent. It does the BOC sound quite well, emulating tape "defects" like warble, crinkle and over-bias. It also has a cool sound-on-sound looper feature. Just record a couple of loop passes of anything, then slow it down with the Time control = instant BOC 70s-vibe blurry background ambience. It's like the Instagram photo app except for sound.

Will it do the warble without the delay?

Kinski · Post by **Kinski** » Sun May 08, 2011 12:16 am

uhh, as aphex twin put it on some old forum around analord releases - not exactly THIS case but puts the point across imo.

the sound of analogue equpiment including EQ, changes very noticably over even a few hours due to temperature changes within a circuit.
Anyone who has tried to make tracs on a few analogue synths and make them stay in tune can tell you this,you leave a trac running for a few hours come back and think Im sure I didnt fucking write that,I must be going mental!

this affects all the components in a synth/EQ in an almost infinte amount of tiny ways.
and the amount differs from circuit to circuit depending on the design.

the interaction of different channels and their respective signals with an analogue mixer are very complex,EQ,dynamics....
any fx, analogue or digital that are plugged into it all have their own special complex characteristics and all interact with each other differently and change depending on their routing.
Nobody that ive heard of has even begun to start emulating analogue mixer circuitry in software,just the aesthetics,it will come but im sure it will be a crap half hearted effort like most pretend synth plugins are.
they should be called PST synths, P for pretend not virtual.

Every piece of outboard gear has its own sound ,reverbs,modulation effects etc
real room reverb, this in itself companies have spent decades trying to emulate and not even got close in my opinion, even the best attempts like Quantec and EMT only scratch the surface.

analogue EQ is currently impossible in theory to be emulated digitally,quite intense maths shit involed in this if youre really that interested,you could look it up...good luck.

your soundcard will always make things sound like its come from THAT soundcard..they ALL impose their different sound characteristics onto whatever comes out of them they are far from being totally neutral devices.

all the components of a circuit like resistors and capacitors subtley differ from each other depending on their quality but even the most high quality milatary spec ones are never EXACTLY the same.

no two analogue synths can ever be built exactly the same,there are tiny human/automated errors in building the circuits,tweaking the trimpots for example which is usually done manually in a lot of analogue shit.
just compare the sound of 2 808 drum machines next to each other and you will see what I mean,you always thought an 808 was an 808 right?
same goes for 303`s they all sound subltey different,different voltage scaling of the oscillator is usually quite noticable.

VST plugins are restricted by a finite number of calculations per second these factors are WAY beyond their CURRENT capability.

Then there is the question of the physicallity of the instrument this affects the way a human will emotionally interact with it and therfore affect what they will actually do with it! often overlooked from the maths heads,this is probably the biggest factor I think.
for example the smell of analogue stuff as well as the look of it puts you in a certain mental state which is very different from looking at a computer screen.

then there is analogue tape...ah this really could go on forever....

im quite drunk cant be bothered to type anymore...
so yeah,whatever, you obviously dont have to have analogue equipment to make `good` music in case thats the impression im giving,EVERYTHING has its uses .And not all anlaogue equipment is expensive you can still get bargains like old high end military audio devices,tape machines fx etc just go for the unfashionable stuff.

Richard.

[/quote]

soundxplorer · Post by **soundxplorer** » Sun May 08, 2011 1:19 am

nsputnik wrote:
soundxplorer wrote:Strymon El Capistan
Will it do the warble without the delay?

Any and all effect units that would do stuff like this are time-based. Even chorus and flange are all flavors of delay. But what you can do on the El Capistan is turn the Mix up all the way so you don't hear the dry signal, then the "Wow & Flutter" parameter is on 100% of everything coming out of the output. Then set your Delay Time to minimum (25ms for the Single Head mode). Now your signal is 25ms behind being "live" - but nothing that produces variable pitch effects can truly be "live" with zero delay. Even if it sounds like it is, there is definitely some number of milliseconds involved in producing the effect.

Pantheon · Post by **Pantheon** » Sun May 08, 2011 2:17 am

soundxplorer wrote:
nsputnik wrote:
soundxplorer wrote:Strymon El Capistan
Will it do the warble without the delay?
Any and all effect units that would do stuff like this are time-based. Even chorus and flange are all flavors of delay. But what you can do on the El Capistan is turn the Mix up all the way so you don't hear the dry signal, then the "Wow & Flutter" parameter is on 100% of everything coming out of the output. Then set your Delay Time to minimum (25ms for the Single Head mode). Now your signal is 25ms behind being "live" - but nothing that produces variable pitch effects can truly be "live" with zero delay. Even if it sounds like it is, there is definitely some number of milliseconds involved in producing the effect.

Thats absolutely correct, almost every kind of effect, digital or analogue is based on delaying the signal, effecting it in some way and oftain feeding it back into the input. Eq's, chorus, vibrato, flanger, reverbs, etc... all have this property. In some cases the delay might be realy small, ie, <1ms. I've heard that anything below 10ms will be un-noticable, but chained together it can add up.
The only effect I can think of right now that doesnt delay the signal would be saturators/distortion and dynamics processors (compressor/expander).

Warble is a pitch shifting effect so therefore it must delay the signal in constantly varying amounts.

Kinski that quote is perfect, and he realy wrote down a very strong argument for analogue equipment, even if he was pissed at the time

While I realy love analogue effects, there are some digital ones that realy can capture the spirit of their analogue counterparts. Its just hard to find them amongst the sea of crap vst's, novely effects and cheap clones knocking around. For the price, im sure whoever had this pedal would have a fun time with it. I would sure save me the effort of cutting and splicing tape loops, maintaining my reel-to-reel tape heads and minimising the noise floor.

That said digital delays using bucket brigade chips (the digital delay device used in almost all delay pedals) realy sound quite shit to be honnest.

Cryabetes · Post by **Cryabetes** » Mon May 09, 2011 12:59 pm

Pantheon wrote: That said digital delays using bucket brigade chips (the digital delay device used in almost all delay pedals) realy sound quite shit to be honnest.

Pantheon wrote:bucket brigade chips

Pantheon wrote:digital delay

ಠ_ಠ

Sadsic · Post by **Sadsic** » Wed May 11, 2011 12:47 am

True BoC sound maker:

http://www.toneprojects.com/products/pl ... -stx-1260/

if you want anything grainy/wavy/wiggly/or generally weird sounding you can do it with this vst.

nsputnik · Post by **nsputnik** » Thu May 12, 2011 3:55 am

Sadsic wrote:True BoC sound maker:

http://www.toneprojects.com/products/pl ... -stx-1260/

if you want anything grainy/wavy/wiggly/or generally weird sounding you can do it with this vst.

Can anyone make an demo of this?

Sadsic · Post by **Sadsic** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:18 pm

I have it, I can show you a million different sounds from it.

polar sky · Post by **polar sky** » Thu May 12, 2011 2:28 pm

Saw this on Youtube. Never tried it out but it sounds pretty cool on the video. If you can't afford to use analog then this might be up your alley.

80s VHS effects