Do you think the early 'private' releases really exist??

thinkdontpray · Post by **thinkdontpray** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:45 am

they way i see it is if they want us to hear their old stuff then they will release it

or we could just start a petition on change.org lol

nordheim · Post by **nordheim** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:55 am

i think they exist and really dont care about the material one way or another.
one funny thought experiment for me though: i was thinking if you guys were to attempt to see how far you could get into my musical past, how far you actually could. i have released around 17 eps in the last decade. 14 are way out of print and the first 3 were only physical copies of around 5 each, all given to pals. regardless of how big i got or how many ravenous fans there were, i have a feeling you would only find the ghosts of these releases: a bit of text and thats it. you probably could never track down actual files. on top of that, personally speaking, they're public airing would be mildly embarrassing but ultimately not a big deal as they still retain some good ideas, which is my thought on how the brothers think of these things. anyway, thought that was kind of interesting when you extrapolate the idea and place it in a different context.

wash · Post by **wash** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:47 pm

there is that early godspeed you! black emperor cassette that was widely believed not to exist but recently leaked...never give up hope

NorthernFusion · Post by **NorthernFusion** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:48 pm

thinkdontpray wrote:they way i see it is if they want us to hear their old stuff then they will release it

or we could just start a petition on change.org lol

still not as bad as this entire thread:

http://www.twoism.org/forum/viewtopic.p ... light=gift

audiotrack · Post by **audiotrack** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:45 pm

Opothecary wrote:I remember a track labelled Godever (14A from R35TT) surfacing on P2P on its own LONG before fakes were a thing and R35TT was a thing that existed. Yes, a song from R35TT was out in the ether a good 3 or 4 years before the rest of that tape materialized. I thought it was very intriguing. Some people might remember that, others might not.

I remember it. I had it on my PC for some time but not now.

Opothecary wrote:R35TT is probably my favorite BoC topic, its the biggest enigma among a very enigmatic song catalog.

Agreed...

I have also posted my thoughts over the years about this tape being related to the early discography.
I just got replies about track lengths not matching up and that the 3 samples are not featured.
But its obvious the tracks on this tape are cut short or fade in/out.

Has anyone considered whether the brothers themselves put this tape out?

PorridgeGun · Post by **PorridgeGun** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:25 pm

thinkdontpray wrote:they way i see it is if they want us to hear their old stuff then they will release it

or we could just start a petition on change.org lol

audiotrack · Post by **audiotrack** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:14 pm

thinkdontpray wrote:they way i see it is if they want us to hear their old stuff then they will release it

maybe they did.!

Opothecary · Post by **Opothecary** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:01 pm

audiotrack wrote: Agreed...

I have also posted my thoughts over the years about this tape being related to the early discography.
I just got replies about track lengths not matching up and that the 3 samples are not featured.
But its obvious the tracks on this tape are cut short or fade in/out.

Has anyone considered whether the brothers themselves put this tape out?

Yeah, there's no reason those 3 tracks have to be on this compilation at all. There's probably 3 1/2 hours of music that we're talking about, and there's only about an hour's worth of it that is unique to R35TT that doesn't appear on any other release.

Basefree · Post by **Basefree** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:05 pm

Opothecary wrote:14A is specifically what made me a believer. Sure, anyone could have taken that song from P2P and slapped it on that tape with everything else...but there's some many other small things, like Seven Forty Seven coming out later using samples from this, bits found in Aquarius (Version 3)...I think everyone has their gotcha moment with this tape that makes them a believer.

Interesting, I've never noticed that before. Which track is it with the Aquarius bits?

mc10101 · Post by **mc10101** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:15 pm

Basefree wrote:
Opothecary wrote:14A is specifically what made me a believer. Sure, anyone could have taken that song from P2P and slapped it on that tape with everything else...but there's some many other small things, like Seven Forty Seven coming out later using samples from this, bits found in Aquarius (Version 3)...I think everyone has their gotcha moment with this tape that makes them a believer.
Interesting, I've never noticed that before. Which track is it with the Aquarius bits?

Yes I'm a newbie to this forum, but not to BOC, and this is all fascinating stuff to me. Going to pull out all my OTs and AFOTs cd rips and listen on cans for prob first time ever

Opothecary · Post by **Opothecary** » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:28 pm

Basefree wrote:
Opothecary wrote:14A is specifically what made me a believer. Sure, anyone could have taken that song from P2P and slapped it on that tape with everything else...but there's some many other small things, like Seven Forty Seven coming out later using samples from this, bits found in Aquarius (Version 3)...I think everyone has their gotcha moment with this tape that makes them a believer.
Interesting, I've never noticed that before. Which track is it with the Aquarius bits?

A12 - and start listening to Aquarius (Version 3) around 2:40

Yeah That's Right · Post by **Yeah That's Right** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:28 am

I'm really intrigued about the case for A14 potentially being the actual Godever. The irony here is that I've previously labelled A13 Godever and referred to it as that, probably to the confusion of the others, because I picked up that title at some point and thought it really suited the feel of the track. I've compiled various old tunes into little compilations or playlists before and I've occasionally given them more personal names. This time I was one track out, it was the next one along I was looking for. A bit of a standout track for a really interesting melody on this compilation all the same.

I'd like to think you're onto something, Opethecary, with the idea of various r35 tracks being from early albums of theirs. I have of course considered this possible before myself, but never got very far when trying to fill in the gaps. The length of tracks and cut off points are too much of a mess. I figured the acoustic guitar tracks might be from Play By Numbers, but none of them have that shoegaze quality of the known sample. Are you basing the assumption they're from Acid Memories on anything or did it just seem to fit? On an interesting note - I've made connections in my mind between BoC's unreleased tracks or demos or demos and mbv, as in the latest My Bloody Valentine album. A couple of the tracks from R35TT have a distinct similarity to respective tracks on mbv - something which another person noticed when I noted this on youtube a while back.

Compare A07 to 'Nothing Is' by MBV (despite my love of both bands I'm not a big fan of either track)

And then the following tracks on each respective album

A08 and 'wonder 2'

The similarity isn't strong but it's noticeably there I think. In fact, there are other similarities between old tunes tracks and tracks on mbv if you want to go further. There's an uncanny resemblance at times, I'm not sure what the significance of this is. There's a slight link in that BoC claim to have been inspired by MBV and some of their early stuff had a shoegazing vibe, though not anything much that we've been able to hear. It's either a very weird coincidence or MBV have taken a lot of inspiration from BoC's back catalogue in all of this time.

noilednad · Post by **noilednad** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:22 am

Is there even such thing as a proper rip of Boc Maxima?

There is a CD version, no?

Opothecary · Post by **Opothecary** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:40 am

Yeah That's Right wrote:I'm really intrigued about the case for A14 potentially being the actual Godever. The irony here is that I've previously labelled A13 Godever and referred to it as that, probably to the confusion of the others, because I picked up that title at some point and thought it really suited the feel of the track. I've compiled various old tunes into little compilations or playlists before and I've occasionally given them more personal names. This time I was one track out, it was the next one along I was looking for. A bit of a standout track for a really interesting melody on this compilation all the same.

Not knowing about the Godever/A14 correlation ahead of time, I'd call A09 Godever. So funny how different people can hear a certain song and think a certain name would fit it.

Yeah That's Right wrote: I'd like to think you're onto something, Opethecary, with the idea of various r35 tracks being from early albums of theirs. I have of course considered this possible before myself, but never got very far when trying to fill in the gaps. The length of tracks and cut off points are too much of a mess. I figured the acoustic guitar tracks might be from Play By Numbers, but none of them have that shoegaze quality of the known sample.

I think A07 totally ties in with the sound of the Wouldn't You Like to Be Free? sample. FWIW A10 could very well be Remmy Kid. I know people just think of it as The Smallest Weird Number reversed, but the timing works, I believe "Remmy" is short for remedial and Play By Numbers seems to have a math/numbers concept, and obviously The Smallest Weird Number is kind of a numbers thing. It's a little bit of a stretch but a good a guess as any.

Yeah That's Right wrote:Are you basing the assumption they're from Acid Memories on anything or did it just seem to fit? On an interesting note - I've made connections in my mind between BoC's unreleased tracks or demos or demos and mbv, as in the latest My Bloody Valentine album. A couple of the tracks from R35TT have a distinct similarity to respective tracks on mbv - something which another person noticed when I noted this on youtube a while back.

Well, maybe I'm wrong on my Acid Memories "type of sound" guess. I just found an interview where they were talking about having more of a "gothic" feel 5 years ago (and this was an interview from 1998) so that would actually line that sound up with the Play By Numbers era which I think most people would usually associate with a shoegaze sound.

I think any comparison to MBV new or old is probably down to just BoC aping their sound for a time, and then maybe MBV returning the favor recently. When I think of them taking a stab at "goth" its not in the traditional Bauhaus vein, I think of things like A13 or some of the slow, dark songs that have that acoustic guitar on them. More of a "rustic goth" I guess I'd think of it as.

Vostok · Post by **Vostok** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:15 am

wash wrote:there is that early godspeed you! black emperor cassette that was widely believed not to exist but recently leaked...never give up hope

all lights fucked on the hairy amp drooling has never leaked

seanandcandy · Post by **seanandcandy** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 3:41 am

Vostok wrote:
wash wrote:there is that early godspeed you! black emperor cassette that was widely believed not to exist but recently leaked...never give up hope
all lights fucked on the hairy amp drooling has never leaked

#pray4this

wash · Post by **wash** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 5:16 am

oh man I thought it did. oh well. guess i was duped too. lawlz.

all i know is that play by numbers is the album i want to hear from so much. if boc released an entire album like wouldn't you want to be free? i would melt. shoegaze is the best.

wash · Post by **wash** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:11 am

and 'colorful lines of infinite sevens' is just about the best song title i can think of

Yeah That's Right · Post by **Yeah That's Right** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:25 am

The song titles are so intriguing. I can't think why anything wouldn't want to know what they sound like...

Opothecary wrote:Not knowing about the Godever/A14 correlation ahead of time, I'd call A09 Godever. So funny how different people can hear a certain song and think a certain name would fit it.

I'm doing it even now. Since techboy posted that old quote suggesting which audiotracks might match album tracks, I'm thinking that 01A must surely be 'Focus on the Spiral'. The music has such a whirring / spinning feel to it, so it would make sense.

I think A09 and A13 both have a similar cinematic soundtrack feel to them, so I think they'd both be from the same album if it all. (Closes vol. 1? Not sure where'd fit though). I've just noticed that A09 Actually matches the length of Godever exactly, so who can say what's what.

Opothecary wrote:I think A07 totally ties in with the sound of the Wouldn't You Like to Be Free? sample. FWIW A10 could very well be Remmy Kid. I know people just think of it as The Smallest Weird Number reversed, but the timing works, I believe "Remmy" is short for remedial and Play By Numbers seems to have a math/numbers concept, and obviously The Smallest Weird Number is kind of a numbers thing. It's a little bit of a stretch but a good a guess as any.

On second thought you're right about A07, especially since I've compared it to an MBV track now.
For all we know they reversed and rerecorded Remmy Kid for Geogaddi, but that guess is as good as any. It certainly seems more fitting than B08 which seems way too dark and ominous to fit with anything else, but maybe that's a part of their 'gothic' sound they referred to.

I think discussion of this whole topic is a case of BTDTGTTS for the oldest members here but for newer ones (like me) there's still so much to be discussed haha. I still find the concept of their early albums very exciting and relevant and I'm always trying to gleam as much information as I can about them from various sources.

Opothecary · Post by **Opothecary** » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:11 pm

Yeah That's Right wrote: I think discussion of this whole topic is a case of BTDTGTTS for the oldest members here but for newer ones (like me) there's still so much to be discussed haha. I still find the concept of their early albums very exciting and relevant and I'm always trying to gleam as much information as I can about them from various sources.

I will never ever get tired of discussing this tape and I've been in this game for 15 years. It's probably my #1 listened to BoC over the past few years. Something very special about it, and the way it's edited together is magic.

If they read Twoism, it must be somewhat frustrating to hear that stuff made in 1991-1995 is in some peoples' most listened tunes. :/ FWIW I've been spinning TH like crazy, but I'm sure I'll naturally drift back to this stuff eventually!