i'd like to ask any fellow twoism music makers for some advice on problems i've been having for the past several years when it comes to making music.
1. i have a problem where i can only spend a few hours working on a particular tune. i'll usually start making something for a couple hours, then i'll take a break, and then when i come back to it later and listen to it with fresh ears, i usually end up labeling it as pure shit and just ditching it and starting something new. i can't for the life of me work on a track for longer than 2 days MAX. i have over 600 unfinished tracks on my laptop. this is a huge issue for me because i'd like to scrape together an EP or something, but i can't finish tunes or at least make them 3-5 minutes long. any advice on how to get over this mindset?
2. my second issue is that whenever i make tunes, they always end up sounding way too much like whatever artist i've been listening to a lot around that time. if i'm on a BoC binge, i'll use a lot of hazy synths, slower tempos etc. if i'm in a dilla phase, it will be more hip-hop/soul oriented, etc. and so on.....
i feel like it's been very difficult for me to find my 'sound'. this is my #1 issue i'm having right now when it comes to writing music. does anyone have any advice on how to get over this?
these might be stupid questions but i'm very concerned about this and i feel like i'm at a creative crossroads right now. any advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks.
a few questions for fellow electronic music makers.....
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honeypower
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Well these are not stupid concerns, they are just - imho - symptoms of your need to find a defined musical path and identity. It's your mind (or your soul, or God, or whatever you attribute your creative urge to) telling you you are still looking for the right and personal way to express yourself. You'll find it someday, who cares if it takes hundreds of unfinished tracks and you feel frustrated? Take your time. Perhaps you are also a perfectionist person, well that's even better for you! I believe it's far more better being like you, instead of clogging the world with cheap music without being critic about it.
(PS: not sure if that was clear, I am not English, that's the best I can come up with
)
(PS: not sure if that was clear, I am not English, that's the best I can come up with
)
Re: a few questions for fellow electronic music makers.....
Some tips that are probably not going to help and I just brain-farted all over twoism:
Stop trying to make your music not shit, and just enjoy making shitty music. Your music will get less shitty over time. And when you finally make something that isn't shit, it will be shit to your ears in a matter of months anyway. This is called improving.
That said, you should explore your own music as much as you're exploring the production of it. Listen to it allot, even if you think it sucks. What makes it so bad? What could make it better? Is there anything in here I like? Why did I did this and that in this and that way? Maybe your music is the kind of music that needs to sink in, and its just a matter of time before you start loving those tunes.
Don't be afraid to just make 1 minute songs. I'd rather listen to a one minute song, then a 4 minute song thats just a loop of the first minute. I mean, just because its short, doesn't mean its not good. Maybe your ep should actually be a mix of those 600 short songs mixed into a 30 minute lush psychedelic adventure? Maybe you can slow down the tracks and stretch it out to 4 minutes. Maybe it needs a tragically slow 16 minute epic solo of you banging on wood with a barbie-doll. The possibilities are endless.
Actually releasing your stuff helps get over it. Its only unfinished as long as you're keeping them on that laptop of yours. Make a collection and release it. Even if you hate it, you can create a new moniker and just put it out there. Even if nobody likes it, or even listens to it (happens allot unfortunately), they are out there and there's "nothing you can do about it anymore". They're done, its over, time to move on to the next release.
As for your own sound, it'll come. You're already half way there just realizing you tend to sound the same, thats allot further then most hobby-musicians will ever come. Be conscious of the choices you make while creating. If you think that detuned sine-wave sounds to much like boc to your ears, remove it, or just make a boc track because YOU CAN.
Find something that means allot to you and make music with it. If you like camera's, make music with camera's. If you like the 80's, make 80's music. If you have a fart fetish, well...you know...
Also, don't try to prove anything. Just make music because thats what you're made to do, and if you're not, fuck it, make music because YOU CAN.
Stop trying to make your music not shit, and just enjoy making shitty music. Your music will get less shitty over time. And when you finally make something that isn't shit, it will be shit to your ears in a matter of months anyway. This is called improving.
That said, you should explore your own music as much as you're exploring the production of it. Listen to it allot, even if you think it sucks. What makes it so bad? What could make it better? Is there anything in here I like? Why did I did this and that in this and that way? Maybe your music is the kind of music that needs to sink in, and its just a matter of time before you start loving those tunes.
Don't be afraid to just make 1 minute songs. I'd rather listen to a one minute song, then a 4 minute song thats just a loop of the first minute. I mean, just because its short, doesn't mean its not good. Maybe your ep should actually be a mix of those 600 short songs mixed into a 30 minute lush psychedelic adventure? Maybe you can slow down the tracks and stretch it out to 4 minutes. Maybe it needs a tragically slow 16 minute epic solo of you banging on wood with a barbie-doll. The possibilities are endless.
Actually releasing your stuff helps get over it. Its only unfinished as long as you're keeping them on that laptop of yours. Make a collection and release it. Even if you hate it, you can create a new moniker and just put it out there. Even if nobody likes it, or even listens to it (happens allot unfortunately), they are out there and there's "nothing you can do about it anymore". They're done, its over, time to move on to the next release.
As for your own sound, it'll come. You're already half way there just realizing you tend to sound the same, thats allot further then most hobby-musicians will ever come. Be conscious of the choices you make while creating. If you think that detuned sine-wave sounds to much like boc to your ears, remove it, or just make a boc track because YOU CAN.
Find something that means allot to you and make music with it. If you like camera's, make music with camera's. If you like the 80's, make 80's music. If you have a fart fetish, well...you know...
Also, don't try to prove anything. Just make music because thats what you're made to do, and if you're not, fuck it, make music because YOU CAN.
Throw away your smartphone.
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tiny sparrow
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I tend to have a lot of the same problems as you. It's taken me years to get over the fact that I'm not happy with the music I've been making, but I can definitely hear the quality improving.
I tend to experiment a lot, build a simple track, and then later pick and choose what sort of experimentation (or lack thereof) that I want to implement. Sometimes simpler is way better than over producing and processing things. I don't see how BoC get away with so much sound processing. They have such a refined technique.
Do you know much about musical theory or did you just start making music without any? I started with barely knowing anything about music, and what I do know now is mostly from listening to a really wide variety of different genres.[/u]
I tend to experiment a lot, build a simple track, and then later pick and choose what sort of experimentation (or lack thereof) that I want to implement. Sometimes simpler is way better than over producing and processing things. I don't see how BoC get away with so much sound processing. They have such a refined technique.
Do you know much about musical theory or did you just start making music without any? I started with barely knowing anything about music, and what I do know now is mostly from listening to a really wide variety of different genres.[/u]
Don't be afraid to persist...
https://soundcloud.com/tiny-sparrow
https://soundcloud.com/tiny-sparrow
i can understand your situation, pretty lame. been there and got over it however you have to realize no two people are the same and what worked for me wont always work for you.
I have a decent collection of hardware so every time i start a new tune its with a different setup of hardware, a different chain, something modulating something differently. All it takes it one good sound to inspire a whole song. I dont start with a tempo and very rarely will i start with a beat, i make noises until i have one sound or a set of noises that i like and then i start jamming. tempo and genres is not involved until sequencing half the time, of course it depends on the idea your trying to achieve though.
It takes routine, its almost like training and the very least passion to be able to make music consistently. Sometimes you just gotta dedicate yourself and sequence shit out, if its crap so what, you will have learned something along the way. With music and maybe with life its not like your working towards this one goal or one point where everything is just one, your making a collection of music for yourself and hopefully others to enjoy over time, one of the best things is listening to music years later, it brings me right back to when i made it, how i was feeling and what was happening in my life at the time. I feel sorry for people who dont have a hobby like ours where that is possible.
What i do when im uninspired is either use all your tools differently, use a fresh set of tools to make music, start with different samples / go record or find some weird as samples and chop them up or even learn some new theory, im slowly learning music a key at a time, so ill look up a new key, learn a song on the piano and then apply that key to making beats, its never ending fun.
If your not happy with the music you make your not making natural music to yourself imo. I love almost everything i make because i feel like its mine, everytime i make music im learning something new and i get more enjoyment out of it then anything else, its my zen for sure. No one else has the same setup as me and even if they did no one uses the gear like i do.
Theres nothing wrong with copying someones music if you are learning from it however re-creating someone elses music is not staying true to yourself as an artist and maybe therefor where it becomes uninspiring. Also i have about 4 or 5 side project i work on, it keeps it interesting and fresh, work with other people, do remixs, make music over spoken words, make words over music, get out of your routine, have fun
Its all about having fun, stay positive. there is endless solutions to your problem
I have a decent collection of hardware so every time i start a new tune its with a different setup of hardware, a different chain, something modulating something differently. All it takes it one good sound to inspire a whole song. I dont start with a tempo and very rarely will i start with a beat, i make noises until i have one sound or a set of noises that i like and then i start jamming. tempo and genres is not involved until sequencing half the time, of course it depends on the idea your trying to achieve though.
It takes routine, its almost like training and the very least passion to be able to make music consistently. Sometimes you just gotta dedicate yourself and sequence shit out, if its crap so what, you will have learned something along the way. With music and maybe with life its not like your working towards this one goal or one point where everything is just one, your making a collection of music for yourself and hopefully others to enjoy over time, one of the best things is listening to music years later, it brings me right back to when i made it, how i was feeling and what was happening in my life at the time. I feel sorry for people who dont have a hobby like ours where that is possible.
What i do when im uninspired is either use all your tools differently, use a fresh set of tools to make music, start with different samples / go record or find some weird as samples and chop them up or even learn some new theory, im slowly learning music a key at a time, so ill look up a new key, learn a song on the piano and then apply that key to making beats, its never ending fun.
If your not happy with the music you make your not making natural music to yourself imo. I love almost everything i make because i feel like its mine, everytime i make music im learning something new and i get more enjoyment out of it then anything else, its my zen for sure. No one else has the same setup as me and even if they did no one uses the gear like i do.
Theres nothing wrong with copying someones music if you are learning from it however re-creating someone elses music is not staying true to yourself as an artist and maybe therefor where it becomes uninspiring. Also i have about 4 or 5 side project i work on, it keeps it interesting and fresh, work with other people, do remixs, make music over spoken words, make words over music, get out of your routine, have fun
Its all about having fun, stay positive. there is endless solutions to your problem
Wow all really great advice.
The only thing I could add if at all is that I found I got bogged down in my own lack of knowledge (how to use ableton more efficiently and effectively) this was mostly true in the first couple of years until I settled on a daw and tools. Secondly I had to learn to not judge my own process as being somehow deficient. Especially reading interviews from BoC and other artists where they allude to how they work in the studio, the detail they pay to this that or the other thing and it sounds spectacular compared to the shit you are doing at home. It helped me tremendously when I saw a documentary of the making of security by peter gabriel because I realized his process was similar to mine or at least it was at that time in his career. I thought, "wheew okay I'm no peter but hell he does it the same way! okay so I can let that stop getting in my way..Now to write some more crap."
Anyway I think a lot of us have a shit ton of discarded ideas in folders on harddrives. I have no idea what they did in the 'olden' days of tape... discarded the bad stuff? They had to deal with making choices more quickly and with fewer options available to them and that this was helpful in getting finished tracks for better or worse. Definitely having so many options available with software can slow me down. I basically found what I liked working with and dismissed the rest. I use maybe 5 software synths and that is it when working with software and I've started to limit some of my hardware too. I had 12 synths at one point and it was a few too many really.
I started to really aim, as an exercise, for finishing a track even if I hated it. And eventually I got a bit better at finishing tracks. This took me about 3 years though FYI.
One last point, Bibio mentioned in a recent interview, which caught my attention, that he took those unfinished tracks and put them all together on an ipod or disc and played them in different places, and sometimes he could hear something different in the track, or where it should go, or what sounds should round it out and I thought.. Yeah totally a good idea. Take your unfinished stuff out of the context of the studio, play it in your car, on your walks, bike rides whatever and see if it alters it for you somehow.
The only thing I could add if at all is that I found I got bogged down in my own lack of knowledge (how to use ableton more efficiently and effectively) this was mostly true in the first couple of years until I settled on a daw and tools. Secondly I had to learn to not judge my own process as being somehow deficient. Especially reading interviews from BoC and other artists where they allude to how they work in the studio, the detail they pay to this that or the other thing and it sounds spectacular compared to the shit you are doing at home. It helped me tremendously when I saw a documentary of the making of security by peter gabriel because I realized his process was similar to mine or at least it was at that time in his career. I thought, "wheew okay I'm no peter but hell he does it the same way! okay so I can let that stop getting in my way..Now to write some more crap."
Anyway I think a lot of us have a shit ton of discarded ideas in folders on harddrives. I have no idea what they did in the 'olden' days of tape... discarded the bad stuff? They had to deal with making choices more quickly and with fewer options available to them and that this was helpful in getting finished tracks for better or worse. Definitely having so many options available with software can slow me down. I basically found what I liked working with and dismissed the rest. I use maybe 5 software synths and that is it when working with software and I've started to limit some of my hardware too. I had 12 synths at one point and it was a few too many really.
I started to really aim, as an exercise, for finishing a track even if I hated it. And eventually I got a bit better at finishing tracks. This took me about 3 years though FYI.
One last point, Bibio mentioned in a recent interview, which caught my attention, that he took those unfinished tracks and put them all together on an ipod or disc and played them in different places, and sometimes he could hear something different in the track, or where it should go, or what sounds should round it out and I thought.. Yeah totally a good idea. Take your unfinished stuff out of the context of the studio, play it in your car, on your walks, bike rides whatever and see if it alters it for you somehow.
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honeypower
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FernieCanto
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Re: a few questions for fellow electronic music makers.....
Don't know if I'll help much, but I'll try.
If you have too many tiny pieces that individually resemble different artists, try mashing up your ideas. Combine bits from one and bits from other and see what happens. Imagine the most ridiculous idea and take it seriously, imagine the most serious idea and make fun of it. But keep it natural and don't force anything. The only thing you should force is your willpower to finish what you start, no matter how much you hesitate, struggle and procrastinate. Squeeze it out and look at it. If it's green and mushy, you might be on the right track.
Depending on my mood, I can't work for more than 10 minutes straight on a track. I'm a horrible procrastinator with my music. I think the key, in this case, is persistence. I've had times when I felt very insecure with a few songs, but as I kept struggling to finish, eventually I became proud of my work. Making music is often annoying, and the only solution is to keep annoying the hell out of yourself. If you completely finish a track, and you still feel like it's shit, then keep it as a lesson for future efforts. But until it's finished and you decide it's worthless, just keep working on it. Irritate yourself until you get tired of being irritated and acquiesce. Works for me, at least (or not, You might hate my music, after all).honeypower wrote:1. i have a problem where i can only spend a few hours working on a particular tune. i'll usually start making something for a couple hours, then i'll take a break, and then when i come back to it later and listen to it with fresh ears, i usually end up labeling it as pure shit and just ditching it and starting something new.
Don't worry about that. Just keep writing and you'll get over it. I think "searching for your identity" only keeps you away from it. If you have an identity, it will come across naturally. You have to recognise yourself in what you write, not force yourself into it. In the beginning, I used to make bland copies of artists I admired, and I thought it AWWWSUM (that's how I spell the word "awesome"). Then I just started listening to more things, and everything just turned into a mushy, greenish blend. I called it Big Robot, Little Robot, put it online and erased everything I had published until then. I think that's really how it happens.2. my second issue is that whenever i make tunes, they always end up sounding way too much like whatever artist i've been listening to a lot around that time.
If you have too many tiny pieces that individually resemble different artists, try mashing up your ideas. Combine bits from one and bits from other and see what happens. Imagine the most ridiculous idea and take it seriously, imagine the most serious idea and make fun of it. But keep it natural and don't force anything. The only thing you should force is your willpower to finish what you start, no matter how much you hesitate, struggle and procrastinate. Squeeze it out and look at it. If it's green and mushy, you might be on the right track.
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Torn n Frayed
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Weekend_Warrior
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First off, have you ever considered working on music using a video? It can be a very good way to be inspired and help you write a track. I once wrote some music for a video project in school and it turned out surprisingly well, I received many compliments
Second, it can help to have a track title in mind before you start. Instead of just composing a mix of random somethings and saying "Hmm this sounds kinda interesting." You could sit in your studio and think of a track title and imagine what a track title like that might sound like. Ex: "Blue Acid Skies." Maybe you find a cool acid-like bassline and then mix it with a nice lush pad or string arrangement, compose a couple simple melodies, find a sample or record a voice saying something like "You could feel the sky!" lol @ BoC reference. But you get the idea... have an idea on what you want to make/hear before you start - just like a author would when starting a book, or a new chapter.
Good Luck!
Second, it can help to have a track title in mind before you start. Instead of just composing a mix of random somethings and saying "Hmm this sounds kinda interesting." You could sit in your studio and think of a track title and imagine what a track title like that might sound like. Ex: "Blue Acid Skies." Maybe you find a cool acid-like bassline and then mix it with a nice lush pad or string arrangement, compose a couple simple melodies, find a sample or record a voice saying something like "You could feel the sky!" lol @ BoC reference. But you get the idea... have an idea on what you want to make/hear before you start - just like a author would when starting a book, or a new chapter.
Good Luck!
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saturdayindex
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