Nine Inch Nails - Hesitation Marks album discussion

[Goiter Sanchez]

i hate come back haunted but from how much ive listened to the album so far i like it, even if alot of it sounds like the average trent songwriting.

the 2nd half is definitely where it picks up. hint: because he actually sings instead of the talking with attitude thing he does on so much of the 1st half. it sticks out so much on this lp its bad

and i really love everything and it's underrated as all hell imo

Best profile gif ever. </irrelevant>

[harpoon dodger]

Really liking the album, its promising with the exception of "Everything" which sounds like total garb. From what I understand it was one of the first things recorded that made it to this record, thank god Reznor went in a better direction from there.

Still hoping I can find the $ to see them live next month!!

[Jonse]

Prefacing this: please excuse my novella below.

Let's keep a few things in mind guys:

First of all, everyone is ENTITLED to his or her own opinion. We are all entitled to love or hate any artist we choose, and free to express that. We should also be aware that getting defensive when someone disagrees with us isn't always the best way to react.

Of course they are. They're entitled to an opinion. Are they entitled to troll? Are they entitled to spout blatant falsities on forum renown for its general calmness? Are they allowed to continue to to after being corrected by some actual evidence? I didn't get defensive because he disagreed with me (about the album), I got defensive because he was (and has been) trolling. I linked him a 24 year time lapse and he said "if I didn't know any better I'd think they were all recorded at the same time". He has something against the band or the poster, obviously.

See, I'm entitled to my opinion that Tomorrow's Harvest is not a good album. Does that mean I say things like "Tomorrow's Harvest contains many samples of whales dying and it's the same thing as last time"? No, because that'd be false, there's a I reason I preface most of my posts with "I feel" or "in my opinion" regarding that album, and it's somewhat offensive to put this on me even remotely and it's somewhat offense that one of my closer friends from this site agreed more with your message when he knows better even despite not liking the artist in particular that he has not put out the same exact thing over and over again, I know he knows this because I was there when we listened to a lot of the songs.

This site has barely any moderation at all (by the way, thank you for taking care of Lens' antics), mostly because it has not required it. However, trolls like Lens Larque still post all the time and dig up old shit irrelevant to the conversation to use against people like me and has previously personally put down turquoise70 on several occasions (and when I say put down, that's an understatement) for having SRS so she can be better represented on the outside how she feels on the inside. Hell, even Mexicola and I have had a series of private messages about how annoying he can be in total agreement.

I'm not stupid, I know exactly what naicob was doing here. He saw that I liked an album, tried for whatever reason purposefully to discredit it by using a bullshit reason. Unless you're one of those people who believe there are no such things as objective truths, he's wrong until he revises his statement to better criticize the album and not the artist he apparently knows so little (and yet so much, by his own word) about. I corrected him, in honestly the tamest possibly way I could and in the way I felt was appropriate for Twoism as this is Twoism, not /mu/. If anyone is upset, I refuse to accept part of the blame. Did I call him an asshole, or a dipshit, or a pleb or "entry-level"? No, I didn't, because:

a. This is Twoism and we should try not to be dicks (in my opinion)
b. I try as hard as I can not to be a dick

What he did is roughly equivalent to someone drinking a glass of wine by a particular vineyard that produces many varieties and saying "yeah, yep it's exactly the same as it's always been, for TWO decades" when it tastes and smells totally different. Is this a bannable offense like what a lot of Lens has done is in my opinion? Hell no, it's free speech (however wrong it is), free speech that pertains to the topic, but so is the person who responds to dismiss the incorrectness of such a declarative, ignorant (or blatantly volatile in an attempt to troll) post. I don't think it warrants an admin coming in and posting a message like that, considering nothing really happened that warranted a message such as that one.

Rodheh, you too. Good lord, this thread is about as angsty as the "Broken" album.

No. No, not me too. I never started the angst or attempted to continue it or wanted it or asked for it or needed it (with my OCD) or made a post containing it. The closest I came was "don't eat chalk", because I was positive at that point he was trolling, and that's hardly angsty in any way. This is nothing. This is Twoism with occasional trolls. It can happen to any forum. People lie all the time. This is absolutely nothing compared not just to something like 4chan but pretty much anything else, WATTM in example. This thread is still less than almost every thread regarding a release there in terms of confrontation. I have not, and never will, accept the idea that it is my fault somehow by responding to the troll, and I have heard every generic point to support that idea and I disagree with all of it.

Now, will anyone quote my wall of text, or part of it, because they agree with it? Who the hell knows...it's easier for people to take a stance of neutrality than to take a stance of what is right. You don't have to like Hesitation Marks at all - you just have to not have your reason for not liking it not be bullshit, unless you want to be called out for it. Sorry if I sound cocky, I really am, but I'm right and he's wrong and that's the end of it. What he stated and continued perpetuating was not a matter of taste. Had he stopped at "nothing surprising", I might have inquired "Oh? Didn't care for it?" and he could have responded with an actual opinion and not a false declarative statement that he's called out for and responds with "grow up". He can either concede his initial statement and continued statements and state a criticism that is coherent or he can deal with the responses.

Just to reiterate, the very first response, HIS response, was:

"Nothing surprising, nothing new. SAME SOUNDS, same simplistic chord progressions, SAME BEATS, SAME LYRICS. Uninteresting pop music shrouded in an even more uninteresting superficial veil of painfully old gimmicky EMO OVERTONES. Same lame schtick for over 2 decades now."

This is the man that told me to grow up. Almost comical.

No John, you are the demons.

[OverTheHorizonRadar]

Well Rod, while you're right that Trent's music has evolved over the years, it's just hard for me to understand your motivation to keep at this. Personally, I might have commented once to the guy or just brushed it off, but if writing this much about it is what you want to do with your time, then go for it.

[naicob]

Prefacing this: please excuse my novella below.

Let's keep a few things in mind guys:

First of all, everyone is ENTITLED to his or her own opinion. We are all entitled to love or hate any artist we choose, and free to express that. We should also be aware that getting defensive when someone disagrees with us isn't always the best way to react.

Of course they are. They're entitled to an opinion. Are they entitled to troll? Are they entitled to spout blatant falsities on forum renown for its general calmness? Are they allowed to continue to to after being corrected by some actual evidence? I didn't get defensive because he disagreed with me (about the album), I got defensive because he was (and has been) trolling. I linked him a 24 year time lapse and he said "if I didn't know any better I'd think they were all recorded at the same time". He has something against the band or the poster, obviously.

See, I'm entitled to my opinion that Tomorrow's Harvest is not a good album. Does that mean I say things like "Tomorrow's Harvest contains many samples of whales dying and it's the same thing as last time"? No, because that'd be false, there's a I reason I preface most of my posts with "I feel" or "in my opinion" regarding that album, and it's somewhat offensive to put this on me even remotely and it's somewhat offense that one of my closer friends from this site agreed more with your message when he knows better even despite not liking the artist in particular that he has not put out the same exact thing over and over again, I know he knows this because I was there when we listened to a lot of the songs.

This site has barely any moderation at all (by the way, thank you for taking care of Lens' antics), mostly because it has not required it. However, trolls like Lens Larque still post all the time and dig up old shit irrelevant to the conversation to use against people like me and has previously personally put down turquoise70 on several occasions (and when I say put down, that's an understatement) for having SRS so she can be better represented on the outside how she feels on the inside. Hell, even Mexicola and I have had a series of private messages about how annoying he can be in total agreement.

I'm not stupid, I know exactly what naicob was doing here. He saw that I liked an album, tried for whatever reason purposefully to discredit it by using a bullshit reason. Unless you're one of those people who believe there are no such things as objective truths, he's wrong until he revises his statement to better criticize the album and not the artist he apparently knows so little (and yet so much, by his own word) about. I corrected him, in honestly the tamest possibly way I could and in the way I felt was appropriate for Twoism as this is Twoism, not /mu/. If anyone is upset, I refuse to accept part of the blame. Did I call him an asshole, or a dipshit, or a pleb or "entry-level"? No, I didn't, because:

a. This is Twoism and we should try not to be dicks (in my opinion)
b. I try as hard as I can not to be a dick

What he did is roughly equivalent to someone drinking a glass of wine by a particular vineyard that produces many varieties and saying "yeah, yep it's exactly the same as it's always been, for TWO decades" when it tastes and smells totally different. Is this a bannable offense like what a lot of Lens has done is in my opinion? Hell no, it's free speech (however wrong it is), free speech that pertains to the topic, but so is the person who responds to dismiss the incorrectness of such a declarative, ignorant (or blatantly volatile in an attempt to troll) post. I don't think it warrants an admin coming in and posting a message like that, considering nothing really happened that warranted a message such as that one.

Rodheh, you too. Good lord, this thread is about as angsty as the "Broken" album.

No. No, not me too. I never started the angst or attempted to continue it or wanted it or asked for it or needed it (with my OCD) or made a post containing it. The closest I came was "don't eat chalk", because I was positive at that point he was trolling, and that's hardly angsty in any way. This is nothing. This is Twoism with occasional trolls. It can happen to any forum. People lie all the time. This is absolutely nothing compared not just to something like 4chan but pretty much anything else, WATTM in example. This thread is still less than almost every thread regarding a release there in terms of confrontation. I have not, and never will, accept the idea that it is my fault somehow by responding to the troll, and I have heard every generic point to support that idea and I disagree with all of it.

Now, will anyone quote my wall of text, or part of it, because they agree with it? Who the hell knows...it's easier for people to take a stance of neutrality than to take a stance of what is right. You don't have to like Hesitation Marks at all - you just have to not have your reason for not liking it not be bullshit, unless you want to be called out for it. Sorry if I sound cocky, I really am, but I'm right and he's wrong and that's the end of it. What he stated and continued perpetuating was not a matter of taste. Had he stopped at "nothing surprising", I might have inquired "Oh? Didn't care for it?" and he could have responded with an actual opinion and not a false declarative statement that he's called out for and responds with "grow up". He can either concede his initial statement and continued statements and state a criticism that is coherent or he can deal with the responses.

Just to reiterate, the very first response, HIS response, was:

"Nothing surprising, nothing new. SAME SOUNDS, same simplistic chord progressions, SAME BEATS, SAME LYRICS. Uninteresting pop music shrouded in an even more uninteresting superficial veil of painfully old gimmicky EMO OVERTONES. Same lame schtick for over 2 decades now."

This is the man that told me to grow up. Almost comical.

No John, you are the demons.

lol

[North by North]

Well Rod, while you're right that Trent's music has evolved over the years, it's just hard for me to understand your motivation to keep at this. Personally, I might have commented once to the guy or just brushed it off, but if writing this much about it is what you want to do with your time, then go for it.

Yes. I'd move on man. I don't see any good coming from yet more banter. I doubt you'll be sending each other holiday cards anyway. Just brush it off at this point and keep to comments on the album.

[Elephant Face]

Well Rod, while you're right that Trent's music has evolved over the years, it's just hard for me to understand your motivation to keep at this. Personally, I might have commented once to the guy or just brushed it off, but if writing this much about it is what you want to do with your time, then go for it.

Yes. I'd move on man. I don't see any good coming from yet more banter. I doubt you'll be sending each other holiday cards anyway. Just brush it off at this point and keep to comments on the album.

Agreed. I feel it's ruining the discussion. I'd like to come here and see what other Twoismers think about the album, and I think this shit might be scaring some off.

[Jonse]

lol

>>>/watmm/

Well Rod, while you're right that Trent's music has evolved over the years, it's just hard for me to understand your motivation to keep at this. Personally, I might have commented once to the guy or just brushed it off, but if writing this much about it is what you want to do with your time, then go for it.

I have obsessive compulsive disorder and I hate the fact that there's a blatant troll on Twoism nobody is doing anything about. Having written what I did has allowed me to silence some of the thoughts repeating in my head. This is what I must do with my spare time if I am to participate in threads containing trolls or else I will feel awful - hear enough validation from others, regardless of how long it takes to garner - that my head shuts up about the troll and dismisses him entirely.

Well Rod, while you're right that Trent's music has evolved over the years, it's just hard for me to understand your motivation to keep at this. Personally, I might have commented once to the guy or just brushed it off, but if writing this much about it is what you want to do with your time, then go for it.

Yes. I'd move on man. I don't see any good coming from yet more banter. I doubt you'll be sending each other holiday cards anyway. Just brush it off at this point and keep to comments on the album.

Agreed. I feel it's ruining the discussion. I'd like to come here and see what other Twoismers think about the album, and I think this shit might be scaring some off.

Then let's not. Let's not have a discussion about the album. We apparently cannot have a discussion about the album, not on this forum, without trolls (of which are extremely rare around here) being ridiculous. I did brush it off. I had an exchange with the guy until I was positive that he was trolling and now I'm not (haven't since then) going to waste my time writing anything of any real meaning in response to him (I believe I started with something about eating chalk). The wall of text I posted was mainly intended for saturdayindex and everyone else in the thread who somehow felt that I was at fault because I responded to and kept responding to a comment I was initially unsure was a troll post or just ignorance, and once again, nobody has to agree with me, it just helps me shut these fucking echoing voices up by saying something. Saying nothing is like delay with the feedback turned all the way up - it never. fucking. stops.

I honestly don't care. I don't care anymore. Delete the thread saturdayindex, I do not care, and it is because of threads like this that I do not feel this place is the place I used to love anymore for being such a great forum. This and the responses I got to my Uritual thread have made me want to pull a turquoise70. The discussion was either effectively ruined from the first response or is not ruined in any way, shape or form, in my opinion, and I cannot decide which one and I don't care to.

[saturdayindex]

Prefacing this: please excuse my novella below.

Let's keep a few things in mind guys:

First of all, everyone is ENTITLED to his or her own opinion. We are all entitled to love or hate any artist we choose, and free to express that. We should also be aware that getting defensive when someone disagrees with us isn't always the best way to react.

Of course they are. They're entitled to an opinion. Are they entitled to troll? Are they entitled to spout blatant falsities on forum renown for its general calmness? Are they allowed to continue to to after being corrected by some actual evidence? I didn't get defensive because he disagreed with me (about the album), I got defensive because he was (and has been) trolling. I linked him a 24 year time lapse and he said "if I didn't know any better I'd think they were all recorded at the same time". He has something against the band or the poster, obviously.

See, I'm entitled to my opinion that Tomorrow's Harvest is not a good album. Does that mean I say things like "Tomorrow's Harvest contains many samples of whales dying and it's the same thing as last time"? No, because that'd be false, there's a I reason I preface most of my posts with "I feel" or "in my opinion" regarding that album, and it's somewhat offensive to put this on me even remotely and it's somewhat offense that one of my closer friends from this site agreed more with your message when he knows better even despite not liking the artist in particular that he has not put out the same exact thing over and over again, I know he knows this because I was there when we listened to a lot of the songs.

I understand how you feel. But you're letting these little comments get under your skin. You will go throughout life with people acting like trolls, or bullies--in online forums, but also in the real world. It's up to you to be bigger than their trolling. Don't let them get under your skin, because you're only giving them what they want. Start ignoring whoever you think is trolling you and see what happens. If you are concerned with the actions of a specific Twoism member, read on...

This site has barely any moderation at all (by the way, thank you for taking care of Lens' antics), mostly because it has not required it. However, trolls like Lens Larque still post all the time and dig up old shit irrelevant to the conversation to use against people like me and has previously personally put down turquoise70 on several occasions (and when I say put down, that's an understatement) for having SRS so she can be better represented on the outside how she feels on the inside. Hell, even Mexicola and I have had a series of private messages about how annoying he can be in total agreement.

This will be taken into account by the moderators. Like you said, Twoism is generally a good community with little need of moderation. As I was saying, if you feel harassed by any specific member of Twoism, PM a moderator if you have not already done so, and include URLs to the specific instances in question.

I'm not stupid, I know exactly what naicob was doing here. He saw that I liked an album, tried for whatever reason purposefully to discredit it by using a bullshit reason. Unless you're one of those people who believe there are no such things as objective truths, he's wrong until he revises his statement to better criticize the album and not the artist he apparently knows so little (and yet so much, by his own word) about. I corrected him, in honestly the tamest possibly way I could and in the way I felt was appropriate for Twoism as this is Twoism, not /mu/. If anyone is upset, I refuse to accept part of the blame. Did I call him an asshole, or a dipshit, or a pleb or "entry-level"? No, I didn't, because:

a. This is Twoism and we should try not to be dicks (in my opinion)
b. I try as hard as I can not to be a dick

What he did is roughly equivalent to someone drinking a glass of wine by a particular vineyard that produces many varieties and saying "yeah, yep it's exactly the same as it's always been, for TWO decades" when it tastes and smells totally different. Is this a bannable offense like what a lot of Lens has done is in my opinion? Hell no, it's free speech (however wrong it is), free speech that pertains to the topic, but so is the person who responds to dismiss the incorrectness of such a declarative, ignorant (or blatantly volatile in an attempt to troll) post. I don't think it warrants an admin coming in and posting a message like that, considering nothing really happened that warranted a message such as that one.

If you were referring to my response, it was absolutely warranted, given the escalating nature of the conversation and the obvious hurt feelings, "trolling", and breach of privacy issues going on. My message addressed every member involved in this altercation, in a moderate manner.

[Jonse]

"Don't let them get under your skin"

That's not a possibility and I won't state again why. Thee best option is not to have a discussion like this while I am involved. You are effectively telling me not to post at all in a scenario where there might be a troll for reasons I will not state again, and it's not your problem by any means and I don't expect you to make exceptions for one person just because they have a particular disorder.

My comment regarding your response was not that a response was not warranted at all but that a response like that (I expressed what I mean when I say that) was not warranted.

Now, I am sleep deprived from staying up all night with a Zoom recorder taking samples of various things/places. I am going to sleep. Please delete the thread. Someone else can re-make it if they want to discuss the album and I will stay clear of it, because he's probably going to write the same bullshit immediately after it opens.

[Elephant Face]

"Don't let them get under your skin"