Tomorrow's harvest (last post)

Valotonin · Post by **Valotonin** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:24 pm

I won't be posting again so it gives me an opportunity to not have to worry about gaining a reputation as a generic crazy person and having to live with it in the context of future posts.

The idea that machines will take over is a very real one.
People are so easily led by their addiction to technology that they will blindly accept the biggest changes should they be gradual. The frog in lukewarm water slowly heating analogy works well in this scenario. Children are conditioned through the media and the world around them to be pro-technology, they see it everywhere. They look up to the adults who spend their lives staring at screens and accept it as a norm. They stare blankly in to computer generated films and seem to be able to find some kind of warmth in it. This is the generation gap (I am 19 years old and of the last generation old enough to remember how beautiful life was before we came to rely on lifeless machines for everything that already existed). The living conditions for humans will start to deteriorate as technology replaces everything human and replaces it with cold machinery we are conditioned to put personality and warmth in to. Interpersonal interaction becomes limited and going to the grocery store is replaced with a machine delivering what it assumes (yes it can) you will require for the week. The cars will be automated and driven by computers, your meals will be harvested and transported and prepared automatically, your doctor will either be on the other side of a webcam (this is already happening more than you would expect) or be a prescribing machine built to analyse symptoms. The only jobs that will survive are those of computer programmers and the masses will find themselves in an 80s sci-fi horror vision of the future as virtual reality becomes more desirable and more acceptable than the lifeless machine reality that has grown around them.

As humans start to realise that the world is failing them there will be a shift in the way people start to think. The need for nature and simplicity will grow in their minds to an extent a slow building but inevitable revolution will take place. They will experience nature for the first time again and realise that all the simulated visuals, feelings and manipulation of receptors is nothing compared to reality. We will remember that we can plant our own seeds and create sustenance from nothing but earth and the technological world will slowly fall in to ruin with the rich and powerful doing what they can to clutch at what remains of it, insisting that we can't survive without it. This will be the most freeing moment for humanity as they will understand the perils of greed and the addiction of technology and vow to never allow something to destroy their lives from the very inside like a cancer again. As the cities crumble to dust, man will be sewing seeds by the edge of fresh water and humanity will, once again, mean being human.

"...we're really celebrating an idea of collapse rather than resisting it."

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:05 pm

I agree.

You shouldn't go.

Mindshifter · Post by **Mindshifter** » Fri Aug 15, 2014 2:20 pm

Nice post. I think something awful must happen first before this revolution you speak of takes place.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Sat Aug 16, 2014 9:26 am

I hope God makes an appearance also, when the shit finally seriously hits the fan. I have a feeling thats not going to happen for a little while

noatakmoon · Post by **noatakmoon** » Sun Aug 17, 2014 4:17 am

hexagon son · Post by **hexagon son** » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:36 pm

Cupz wrote:I hope God makes an appearance also, when the shit finally seriously hits the fan. I have a feeling thats not going to happen for a little while

Hello, this is Doge.

pianoforte · Post by **pianoforte** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:46 am

Valotonin wrote:I won't be posting again so it gives me an opportunity to not have to worry about gaining a reputation as a generic crazy person and having to live with it in the context of future posts.

The idea that machines will take over is a very real one.
People are so easily led by their addiction to technology that they will blindly accept the biggest changes should they be gradual. The frog in lukewarm water slowly heating analogy works well in this scenario. Children are conditioned through the media and the world around them to be pro-technology, they see it everywhere. They look up to the adults who spend their lives staring at screens and accept it as a norm. They stare blankly in to computer generated films and seem to be able to find some kind of warmth in it. This is the generation gap (I am 19 years old and of the last generation old enough to remember how beautiful life was before we came to rely on lifeless machines for everything that already existed). The living conditions for humans will start to deteriorate as technology replaces everything human and replaces it with cold machinery we are conditioned to put personality and warmth in to. Interpersonal interaction becomes limited and going to the grocery store is replaced with a machine delivering what it assumes (yes it can) you will require for the week. The cars will be automated and driven by computers, your meals will be harvested and transported and prepared automatically, your doctor will either be on the other side of a webcam (this is already happening more than you would expect) or be a prescribing machine built to analyse symptoms. The only jobs that will survive are those of computer programmers and the masses will find themselves in an 80s sci-fi horror vision of the future as virtual reality becomes more desirable and more acceptable than the lifeless machine reality that has grown around them.

As humans start to realise that the world is failing them there will be a shift in the way people start to think. The need for nature and simplicity will grow in their minds to an extent a slow building but inevitable revolution will take place. They will experience nature for the first time again and realise that all the simulated visuals, feelings and manipulation of receptors is nothing compared to reality. We will remember that we can plant our own seeds and create sustenance from nothing but earth and the technological world will slowly fall in to ruin with the rich and powerful doing what they can to clutch at what remains of it, insisting that we can't survive without it. This will be the most freeing moment for humanity as they will understand the perils of greed and the addiction of technology and vow to never allow something to destroy their lives from the very inside like a cancer again. As the cities crumble to dust, man will be sewing seeds by the edge of fresh water and humanity will, once again, mean being human.

"...we're really celebrating an idea of collapse rather than resisting it."

I've been thinking about this post for the past few weeks and I'm beginning to think you may well be right.

WATER_CAN-_- · Post by **WATER_CAN-_-** » Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:11 pm

I have to somewhat disagree. I think that while the illusion that we are further removing ourselves from nature is a major problem. I don't necessarily think all automation is a bad thing especially if economies can adapt to the change. The evidence suggests that the primary threat to a decent existence (for at least humans and other sentient life) is human caused climate change. I would say followed by nuclear war.

Technology has shown itself to be inherently neutral. It's human behavior that is the problem, and I don't think we should hold our breath for some supernatural being to save us.

Wonder Spunion · Post by **Wonder Spunion** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:41 am

I think you are on the right path with your thinking, but I'm not sure things will pan out the way you describe. We've been deteriorating since the beginning of recorded history. The culprit? Religion. It's been a mighty long time since humans have been concerned with living in harmony with each other and nature, and as we see today, we haven't changed. Humans have the capacity for wickedness, and unfortunately, many of them thrive on it. That means technology isn't the enemy, it's the people behind some of this technology that are the problem. Ultimately, the enemy is greed, and right now the 1% controlling the world know nothing else.

I think we're just in the end stages, past the point of no return. I would love to believe there is a renaissance of nature in our future, but nature, as we know it, is dying. Species are going extinct at an incredible rate, the coral reef is dying, and if we aren't careful, we won't even have a natural seed of edible plant left. This devastation is rapidly increasing. Our future on this planet is grim.

You should start checking out some info on the 6th extinction. It's what many scientists are labeling our current time period. Humans aren't the cause, but we are the accelerators. It could open your mind to go further into your stream of thought.

I mean this is really just the tip of the iceberg.

And yes...
"...we're really celebrating an idea of collapse rather than resisting it."

WATER_CAN-_- · Post by **WATER_CAN-_-** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:33 am

Wonder Spunion wrote:You should start checking out some info on the 6th extinction. It's what many scientists are labeling our current time period. Humans aren't the cause, but we are the accelerators. It could open your mind to go further into your stream of thought.

I agree with basically everything you said except for the above quote. We are actually living in what scientists term the Anthropocene http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthropocene All the evidence indicates that humans are very much the cause. From my understanding, scientists are unsure of whether or not we have crossed the threshold to where there is no turning back. Though it is certainly possible that we have, I don't think it merits people who care about such things to simply repudiate this problem.

Wonder Spunion · Post by **Wonder Spunion** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:46 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Looking back through hundreds of millions of years upon 5 major extinctions before our time, it would be silly to think humans are the sole purpose for this happening. Our activity affects it in a huge way, though. Above is the actual term for what is happening right now. If you look at the first sentence on the Anthropocene wiki, you will see it says "informal." It doesn't mean it's not right. When you read further you see they are still working on making that the official term. Holocene extinction is what is recognized among all scientists in this field. The wiki says humans are causing this starting 10,000 BCE, but I have read information that states otherwise. I could never rely on Wikipedia to be the sole source of information. So, maybe it is all caused by humans, but maybe it's not. Extinctions happen, regardless.

WATER_CAN-_- · Post by **WATER_CAN-_-** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 7:29 am

Wonder Spunion wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction

Looking back through hundreds of millions of years upon 5 major extinctions before our time, it would be silly to think humans are the sole purpose for this happening. Our activity affects it in a huge way, though. Above is the actual term for what is happening right now. If you look at the first sentence on the Anthropocene wiki, you will see it says "informal." It doesn't mean it's not right. When you read further you see they are still working on making that the official term. Holocene extinction is what is recognized among all scientists in this field. The wiki says humans are causing this starting 10,000 BCE, but I have read information that states otherwise. I could never rely on Wikipedia to be the sole source of information. So, maybe it is all caused by humans, but maybe it's not. Extinctions happen, regardless.

I'm merely expressing my opinion on a message board. While the term Anthropocene may be informal, it's the most relevant term I know to what I see as our most immediate problem in contrast to what the OP stated. I realize there are other natural phenomena that could potentially wipe out life as we know it. However, I am primarily concerned with anything we as a species might be doing that may ruin any hope for a decent existence. And essentially, the things we are doing that might be the most immediately prevented. If we invested more in science and engineering to try and protect life instead of destroy it, then maybe we could even prevent some natural disasters we are not even the cause of.

I am all for multiple sources of information and I would implore anyone to seek the scientific truth.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5314592.stm

http://climate.nasa.gov/causes/#no1

http://www.sciencemag.org/content/306/5702/1686.full

http://ipcc-wg2.gov/AR5/images/uploads/ ... _FINAL.pdf

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 0.abstract

http://www.pnas.org/content/108/6/2306.abstract

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 02121.html

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:12 am

I think its incredibly ignorant to think us tiny specks of humans have any large scale long time influence on the planet's ecosystem. Its just scientists jacking off to their power fantasies I think. I believe the ecosystem has multiple failsaves and resets that can restore allot of damage. It would induce huge changes to the current system, but I doubt "life" will ever seize on this little rock (not saying humans wont). I fear something like singularity is far more realistic and scary then whatever climate disaster could hit us. Ice ages, floods, astroids, all that stuff has hit this planet before and life has always prevailed, be it humans be it goats be it nettles be it that stupid squirel in that horrible cgi movie. If anything, bring on that muthafuckin ice age/whatever, it would do wonders to all the flora and fauna I gaurantee!
I'm allot more scared of the end of civilization in the spiritual vs technology sense. I'm seeing a sort of spiritual narrowing allot. I haven't met a real spiritual or religious person outside of the internet in a LONG while. Churches and temples are gathering "for sale" signs, and we are unable to leave the house without a phone for over 14 years now. Thats the end of the world right there, where all humans are inside their own little reality bubbles (an actual thing now!) slowly turning into walking batteries with little more interest then pressing that hilarious fart button again, a sound we have been able to produce ourselves for ages in a plethora of ways, uploading their uninteresting patterns of farts to fartcloud.com or looking in disgust at the live video-feed of their neighboors pressing a different color fart button, or even worse, pressing the boobies button..

WATER_CAN-_- · Post by **WATER_CAN-_-** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:16 pm

Cupz wrote:I think its incredibly ignorant to think us tiny specks of humans have any large scale long time influence on the planet's ecosystem. Its just scientists jacking off to their power fantasies I think. I believe the ecosystem has multiple failsaves and resets that can restore allot of damage. It would induce huge changes to the current system, but I doubt "life" will ever seize on this little rock (not saying humans wont). I fear something like singularity is far more realistic and scary then whatever climate disaster could hit us. Ice ages, floods, astroids, all that stuff has hit this planet before and life has always prevailed, be it humans be it goats be it nettles be it that stupid squirel in that horrible cgi movie. If anything, bring on that muthafuckin ice age/whatever, it would do wonders to all the flora and fauna I gaurantee!
I'm allot more scared of the end of civilization in the spiritual vs technology sense. I'm seeing a sort of spiritual narrowing allot. I haven't met a real spiritual or religious person outside of the internet in a LONG while. Churches and temples are gathering "for sale" signs, and we are unable to leave the house without a phone for over 14 years now. Thats the end of the world right there, where all humans are inside their own little reality bubbles (an actual thing now!) slowly turning into walking batteries with little more interest then pressing that hilarious fart button again, a sound we have been able to produce ourselves for ages in a plethora of ways, uploading their uninteresting patterns of farts to fartcloud.com or looking in disgust at the live video-feed of their neighboors pressing a different color fart button, or even worse, pressing the boobies button..

If I didn't care so much about this issue, the above almost doesn't merit a response.

In reality, the evidence indicates the contrary is true. So actually it's incredibly ignorant to think humans aren't capable of influencing the condition of life on this planet and its ecosystems. Viruses and bacteria(discovered thanks to science) are incredibly small little specks compared to us, but they will still put a human in the hospital or worse. Considering humans are releasing tens of billions of metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere annually. You think this has no ramifications? Our immediate problem, namely human caused climate change, is a scientific fact. Just like the theory of gravity might as well be considered a fact.

Additionally, if it weren't for scientists such as Faraday and Maxwell, then we wouldn't even have Boards of Canada's incredible music that we get to enjoy. That along with the multitude of engineers responsible for the synthesizers they've used. Guess what? They work with electromagnetic forces which is a part of nature. All the technology we enjoy is because of nature, which humans have learned to work with. All it is is the movement of electrons through an element such as copper, which can be generated through simple motion. We don't have to destroy much of life on earth to enjoy the technology we enjoy today since it's really all powered by electricity. I'm confident that we can enjoy our way of life and still be good custodians of the planet.

As for the spirituality/religious nonsense. Human really need to outgrow these archaic beliefs fast. Real scientific research starts from the position that things are not true (null hypothesis or status quo) until there is enough evidence to suggest otherwise (null hypothesis is rejected) through data collected from experiments. Scientists use a tool called the scientific method. They carefully collect data by doing experiments and use proven statistical techniques to try and determine what is/isn't actually occurring. If the hypothesis thought to be correct does't match up to what experiment shows, then the hypothesis is wrong and gets thrown out. Whenever this level of scrutiny is used on spiritual beliefs, religion, pseudoscience they fail the test every time. So I am glad these ways of thinking and institutions supporting these ideas are being dismantled.

Lastly, if it weren't for science we wouldn't be so lucky to get know so much about the universe that we know now. To see how strange and wondrous it really is. To use telescopes to look into deep space and look at the early universe which is really like peering back in time and to see distant galaxies. We are so lucky to be evolved lifeforms with science, and to get to know these things, and see some of it with out own eyes. We shouldn't take this for granted.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:51 pm

WATER_CAN-_- wrote:
Cupz wrote:I think its incredibly ignorant to think us tiny specks of humans have any large scale long time influence on the planet's ecosystem. Its just scientists jacking off to their power fantasies I think. I believe the ecosystem has multiple failsaves and resets that can restore allot of damage. It would induce huge changes to the current system, but I doubt "life" will ever seize on this little rock (not saying humans wont). I fear something like singularity is far more realistic and scary then whatever climate disaster could hit us. Ice ages, floods, astroids, all that stuff has hit this planet before and life has always prevailed, be it humans be it goats be it nettles be it that stupid squirel in that horrible cgi movie. If anything, bring on that muthafuckin ice age/whatever, it would do wonders to all the flora and fauna I gaurantee!
I'm allot more scared of the end of civilization in the spiritual vs technology sense. I'm seeing a sort of spiritual narrowing allot. I haven't met a real spiritual or religious person outside of the internet in a LONG while. Churches and temples are gathering "for sale" signs, and we are unable to leave the house without a phone for over 14 years now. Thats the end of the world right there, where all humans are inside their own little reality bubbles (an actual thing now!) slowly turning into walking batteries with little more interest then pressing that hilarious fart button again, a sound we have been able to produce ourselves for ages in a plethora of ways, uploading their uninteresting patterns of farts to fartcloud.com or looking in disgust at the live video-feed of their neighboors pressing a different color fart button, or even worse, pressing the boobies button..
If I didn't care so much about this issue, the above almost doesn't merit a response.

In reality, the evidence indicates the contrary is true. So actually it's incredibly ignorant to think humans aren't capable of influencing the condition of life on this planet and its ecosystems. Viruses and bacteria(discovered thanks to science) are incredibly small little specks compared to us, but they will still put a human in the hospital or worse. Considering humans are releasing tens of billions of metric tons of carbon into the atmosphere annually. You think this has no ramifications? Our immediate problem, namely human caused climate change, is a scientific fact. Just like the theory of gravity might as well be considered a fact.

Additionally, if it weren't for scientists such as Faraday and Maxwell, then we wouldn't even have Boards of Canada's incredible music that we get to enjoy. That along with the multitude of engineers responsible for the synthesizers they've used. Guess what? They work with electromagnetic forces which is a part of nature. All the technology we enjoy is because of nature, which humans have learned to work with. All it is is the movement of electrons through an element such as copper, which can be generated through simple motion. We don't have to destroy much of life on earth to enjoy the technology we enjoy today since it's really all powered by electricity. I'm confident that we can enjoy our way of life and still be good custodians of the planet.

As for the spirituality/religious nonsense. Human really need to outgrow these archaic beliefs fast. Real scientific research starts from the position that things are not true (null hypothesis or status quo) until there is enough evidence to suggest otherwise (null hypothesis is rejected) through data collected from experiments. Scientists use a tool called the scientific method. They carefully collect data by doing experiments and use proven statistical techniques to try and determine what is/isn't actually occurring. If the hypothesis thought to be correct does't match up to what experiment shows, then the hypothesis is wrong and gets thrown out. Whenever this level of scrutiny is used on spiritual beliefs, religion, pseudoscience they fail the test every time. So I am glad these ways of thinking and institutions supporting these ideas are being dismantled.

There is no need to disregard opinions like this, but I like your insights anyway. You also read me incredibly wrong.

If you compare our silly little existence to the rest of the world, and the entire history of world, we are very little. Only in the last 100 years (100 lousy friggin years) have we been seriously poluting this world. Thats NOTHING compared to the millions of years (or thousands if you're that kinda guy) this planet is in existence. Now, deliberatly trying to kill our momma nature like we do now is of course not the brightest of ideas, but in reality we are only destroying ourselves. Even if we completely nuke the entire planet and destroy all humans or everything a human needs to survive, we'd still have life on this planet. Cockroaches are a perfect example of this. Certain plantlife will survive, the planet will slowly rebuild itself. We as a species cannot "fuck up" this planet unless we place a few gigatons of explosions right in the center of the earth (now who would wanna do a thing like that?). At best we could destroy ourselfs and start a new age of different life. Its ignorant to think people MEAN something compared to all the flora and fauna on this planet. Life has the peculiar skill to adjust to its ecosystem.

You come across as though you think I disaprove of science (or something?). I am a great fan of allot of scientists and I am a great fan of the scientific method. I'm also a great fan of electricity, and I love using electricity (I am an electronic musician), and if I think I need to make an aerosole-ozone-destroying-spraycan-organ, I by god am going to do it, and you will have no power to stop me, and humans (as we know them) will die and planet earth will prevail. All hail planet earth.

Saying spirituality or religion is nonsense is saying 100% of the time spent discussing the matter on this planet was a complete waste of time. Now I personally like to disagree with that, especially regarding all the great minds in history spending allot of their valuable brainpower on the matter, with very variable conclusions, most of them not atheistic (eastern philosophy f.e.).
Saying science starts from the position that things are not true, I agree wholeheartedly. Saying science starts from the position that things are not true...untill there is enough evidence to suggest otherwise, I will disagree in a contrasting intense matter. Every once in a while a discovery is made where everything we assumed to be "scientifically proven" gets turned on its ass, and our understanding that we don't understand ANYTHING, or at least next to nothing becomes more and more fortified. Disregarding unproven things alltogether is also extremely silly, and not a very sciency thing to do in my opinion. Your thoughts on this matter are exactly what I meant in my previous post.

I feel a teaparty coming up

Valotonin · Post by **Valotonin** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:58 pm

Cupz wrote: I'm allot more scared of the end of civilization in the spiritual vs technology sense. I'm seeing a sort of spiritual narrowing allot. I haven't met a real spiritual or religious person outside of the internet in a LONG while. Churches and temples are gathering "for sale" signs, and we are unable to leave the house without a phone for over 14 years now. Thats the end of the world right there, where all humans are inside their own little reality bubbles (an actual thing now!) slowly turning into walking batteries with little more interest then pressing that hilarious fart button again, a sound we have been able to produce ourselves for ages in a plethora of ways, uploading their uninteresting patterns of farts to fartcloud.com or looking in disgust at the live video-feed of their neighboors pressing a different color fart button, or even worse, pressing the boobies button..

I love you. You understand.

Valotonin · Post by **Valotonin** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:00 pm

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Fri Aug 22, 2014 11:09 pm

Valotonin wrote: But people who choose to be part of a natural revolution still have the freedom to choose nature and that is something i will do if i find this futuristic fantasy a bit too intrusive.

Yes I am on the verge of this myself. I am actually moving to a more nature-oriented surrounding very soon, though I'm a bit less extreme about it as I was when I started the "lets live in the woods together" thread (I am a terrible hypocrit). I am quite interested in seeing where this technology-rollercoaster is going to crash, as if I'm on the ground watching an actual rollercoaster crashing, like I sincerely hope everything is going to be fine and everyone makes it out alive, its just really scary to see. I can always still pack my backs and gtfo...or get killed in the process. I wont really care by then.

WATER_CAN-_- · Post by **WATER_CAN-_-** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 3:07 am

Well the earth has been in existence for 4.5 billion years. I realize there have been multiple mass extinctions, but the idea of being a part of the cause of an unnecessary one sickens me. I also don't see how technology in and of itself is the problem. I only see human behavior as the problem and how people produce, interact with, and dispose of certain technology. I personally would love to see us become more advanced but in a responsible way. It strikes me as strange that you seem to be advocating society to relinquish technology in favor of living amongst nature, but you don't seem to have much resect for the idea of protecting it.

I'm on the other hand in favor of protecting the biota. I love wildlife and I don't want the world to be uninhabitable for my great grandchildren. I don't see how this is not a legitimate concern especially since it may be preventable.

Yes, the scientific consensus does get turned on its head from time to time, but the present consensus by definition means it's the best understanding we have at the time even if it may be wrong. The scientific method is the only useful tool we have to reach any possible conclusion on what is true in reality, and the beauty of the the tool is that it's self correcting. While I think it's perfectly fine to philosophize about the nature of existence and reality. Assertions of truth about the nature of reality by any means other that what seems to be case though scientific findings, is truly disingenuous at best. Because a belief has been around for a long time, or an idea has been thought of by a great thinker doesn't make it more correct. What is true is true regardless if people believe it or not. In fact, old beliefs such as religion that are from a time before we had science are significantly less likely to be true for that very reason. I definitely don't like the idea of society moving back towards the dark ages.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:51 pm

I think nature can do a pretty kickass job at protecting itself. I hate it when people depict our planet as a sort of fragile little clump of sand and water, when natural disasters can still wreak havoc beyond our control. Just blow up a few dikes here in the netherlands and be amazed at just how powerful this planet is. I would agree with doing your part to not conciously destroy the planet, but say that its a better idea we better keep this planet our friend, not for the planets sake, but for our sake.. I sincerely hope we don't destroy ourselves anytime soon, there is still allot left to be experienced even though less and less people are looking for these experiences each day.

What is true in reality? Not to undermine science for what it is, but what does that mean? How can you be sure that what you observe is reality? What if you are making all these conclusions up, that there is no reality other then what you yourself create? That science is actually a distraction from "true reality", something you haven't seen yet, that works with different laws, maybe even laws you cannot fully comprehend? I'm not saying this is evidently the case, but its just as plausable as anything else. If you dream, for example, you do not always know you are dreaming. There is such a thing as lucid dreaming, reality checks, sure, yet most of the time you are convinced that whatever you are concieving is in fact "true reality". We discover things are "false realities" every day when we wake up ("oh wait, of course, tis but a dream!"). I even remember performing reality checks in my dreams that failed because I was convinced physics where acting the right way (they weren't in hindsight). After many oneironautic studies I discovered it is almost impossible to know for certain if you are dreaming or not at any given time. There are tricks into fooling yourself thinking stuff, some even offer great sense of controll, but true knowledge of reality remains vague. I feel like I have to wake up in eight different planes before I reach the "true reality", whatever that may be and if it even exists. That also sounds allot like what some buddhists and hindus believe, I'm not sure (can anyone back me up on that?).
In this case its impossible to seek out scientific evidence. Marking your home with a large sticker "TRUE REALITY" might result in that exact sticker finding its way into your dreams. You can only trust your "gut" on matters like this and that's where spirituality/religion comes in, for me anyway. Its weird to call that "dark ages" (when I read dark ages I read roman catholicism), not all religion is rooted in evil like that. In fact, true spiritual leaders (mohamed, jesus, buddha, whatever) all throughout history presented an oposite mentality, thoughts completely disappeared from the dark ages, but where in my opinion very ahead of times, even now. Wake up, this reality may not be the true reality either! Let us all discuss perception, mind, soul and spirit and maybe explore inwards as well! Maybe some of us can even be lucky enough to find God in these realms and even find a bff in Him!

____twoism

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