The ethics of "BoC-alike" production.

[Cupz]

I despise skrillex but I meant what I said, yeah.

[Negamuse]

Tycho just kind of shows its working a little much

[machinea]

I really liked Tycho's record Dive but it is the one he arguably spent the longest on, the other two leave me a bit flat (Past is Prologue and Awake. (I think he is a better graphic artist) There are other artists that I think borrow more heavily from the Boc like sound though but they are just arguably less popular with the exception of Bibio; Belbury Poly, The Advisory Circle, Pye Corner Audio, Benoit Pilourd, RoofLight. I think ethics has little to do with anything about it. People always imitate that which inspires them and typically at some point they branch out into their own sound which seems rather unavoidable for most artists. We all end up sounding like ourselves no matter who we copied/were influenced by initially.

[IanRedpoint]

It's funny. I don't really think of the Ghost Box artists as borrowing from the BoC sound at all. If anything I would say that they are inspired by the some of same things that BoC were (TV idents, '70s schools and colleges programming etc.) but with a more anglocentric bias. I think that what BoC did give them was an audience that were tuned into these elements in modern music.

When I first heard BoC it was an instant connection back to the strange imprecise electronic music I had heard in my childhood. It was something I hadn't really heard for 20 years (of shiny synth-pop, techno and indie guitar) and opened me up to a hazy nostalgia I'd not experienced with music before. Without doubt it was the catalyst for me wanting to make electronic music. Doing Redpoint with my friend Andy was the obvious result of that... and we were both rather in awe of BoC at that time.

I'm much less inclined to make anything directly inspired by BoC now. You're right that we all end up sounding like ourselves eventually. I worry less about whether a particular sound is BoC-ish than I used to. I just like certain sounds and always have. It's coincidence that BoC or Ae or John Carpenter etc. might have used a similar sound, probably because it just sounds good.

[re-phaelam-ed]

how about the NFB....it goes both ways.

they do what they do. BoC do it really well. people can copy...but it sounds like a copy.
does it matter?

[FortonServices]

It's funny. I don't really think of the Ghost Box artists as borrowing from the BoC sound at all. If anything I would say that they are inspired by the some of same things that BoC were (TV idents, '70s schools and colleges programming etc.) but with a more anglocentric bias. I think that what BoC did give them was an audience that were tuned into these elements in modern music.

When I first heard BoC it was an instant connection back to the strange imprecise electronic music I had heard in my childhood. It was something I hadn't really heard for 20 years (of shiny synth-pop, techno and indie guitar) and opened me up to a hazy nostalgia I'd not experienced with music before. Without doubt it was the catalyst for me wanting to make electronic music. Doing Redpoint with my friend Andy was the obvious result of that... and we were both rather in awe of BoC at that time.

I'm much less inclined to make anything directly inspired by BoC now. You're right that we all end up sounding like ourselves eventually. I worry less about whether a particular sound is BoC-ish than I used to. I just like certain sounds and always have. It's coincidence that BoC or Ae or John Carpenter etc. might have used a similar sound, probably because it just sounds good.

Totally agree. The Ghost Box stuff doesn't really sound anything like BoC. Maybe one of two of the Pye Corner Audio tracks (the ones without drums) are a little similar, but not enough for it to be an uncomfortable rip off.

Although I suspect there may have been an influence from BoC at some point (Jon Brooks aka The Advisory Circle did some stuff ages ago under the name King Of Woolworths that sounds very BoC), they have used that influence to do something totally different. And it's only really one aspect of the BoC sound (warbly 70s tapes/TV shows) that they take. Not the whole thing.

When someone takes the whole thing, every aspect of their sound, and tries to reproduce it, it's just a bit embarrassing really. Same goes for any artist.

[Aerial Boundaries]

The only Ghost Box record I know is Other Channels. You can see the comparison but it is definitely focused differently, and the approach to music making in general is quite different compared to BoC. Great record though.

[FernieCanto]

I can only think of this matter in terms of music as a whole. Pretty much every acclaimed artist spawns imitators. This not only happens today, but has pretty much always existed in the history of written music. I think some people have a slightly distorted idea of what originality is. Following a pre-established mould is not necessarily unoriginal, because you can imprint new or interesting elements within a mould -- just like you can incorporate existing elements into your own mould and give them a new meaning. However, some people see this as being unoriginal, under the twisted idea that "everything" has to be brand new and different. This is silly.

I think the problem with originality is exactly when people don't allow their own individuality to get into their art, when people blindly follow a mould and remove anything that could spoil its "purity". Many do this to make the end product more marketable and profitable, and that's one of the worst cases of unoriginality there are (to me). Others do this out of sheer reverence for the source material, and fear of "spoiling" it with foreign elements. This is the problem. If you try to be exactly like BoC, you're repressing your own voice, and you're not even realising that even BoC themselves often are not exactly like BoC (Jacquard Causeway, anyone?). If, on the other hand, you let your own voice seep into the material and twist it into something interesting, I'm fully in favour of it. Of course, in order for that to happen, you have to find your own voice, but that usually only comes with time and practice. Just don't hold it back. Let the creative juices flow freely, and eventually things will start falling into place. In my view, that's what the ethics are.

[Jonse]

Coming back to this thread, I just now have realized how stupid while simultaneously not stupid it is as well as the question it posits. I don't think this is something people really want to talk about beyond what we already all understand regarding artistic inspiration.

Or perhaps I'm still overly critical of it. Odd to me that something so probably unimportant like Lens said can prohibit someone from enjoying the end result of their work in the slightest bit.

[Negamuse]

Basically you have to paddle your own canoe in this world, but if you sit in the canoe trying to think of new ways to propel it cos "people have already done paddling" you go nowhere.

[Cupz]

Or perhaps I'm still overly critical of it. Odd to me that something so probably unimportant like Lens said can prohibit someone from enjoying the end result of their work in the slightest bit.

They shouldn't blame Lens for that.

[re-phaelam-ed]

Basically you have to paddle your own canoe in this world, but if you sit in the canoe trying to think of new ways to propel it cos "people have already done paddling" you go nowhere.

agreed...you can also emulate to learn, build a foundation that will help you find your own way.
sitting thinking about the approach my keep you from ever starting.

i really like what you wrote mrmessiah.

[Peacock Tail]

I have never been influenced or tempted to be influenced by BOC when recording my own music.

In fact, I think you could say it couldn't be further away from it.

https://soundcloud.com/meaneruk

[IanRedpoint]

I must admit that I seem to be hearing a lot more stuff recently that directly apes a lot of BoC ingredients. Is this really what people are interested in creating? I know I'm really bored of hearing the same tropes and stylistic tics. Is it just too easy now to find those dusty voice samples and replicate that degraded sound, I wonder?

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular and pretty much everything I've listened to recently has had some strong tracks and ideas but also an awful lot of BoC-by-numbers filler too. It's a shame because it so often overshadows the artist's own identity.

[The Telepathic Kid]

"It's a shame because it so often overshadows the artist's own identity."

As someone who feels they have to create music as a need of self expression, I completely agree.

[re-phaelam-ed]

I must admit that I seem to be hearing a lot more stuff recently that directly apes a lot of BoC ingredients. Is this really what people are interested in creating? I know I'm really bored of hearing the same tropes and stylistic tics. Is it just too easy now to find those dusty voice samples and replicate that degraded sound, I wonder?

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular and pretty much everything I've listened to recently has had some strong tracks and ideas but also an awful lot of BoC-by-numbers filler too. It's a shame because it so often overshadows the artist's own identity.

heh...funny how you guys say "BoC ingredients"....they aren't the first to do that stuff. you just like what they did with it best.
so lame.

i remember some pinhead saying the static they heard in someone elses tune was very "BoC"...like the static on a TV....did TV's bite that static sound from BoC too? or perhaps tape decks bit that degraded "tape" sound from them.....ugh.

just let shit be what it is.

[IanRedpoint]

heh...funny how you guys say "BoC ingredients"....they aren't the first to do that stuff. you just like what they did with it best.
so lame.

i remember some pinhead saying the static they heard in someone elses tune was very "BoC"...like the static on a TV....did TV's bite that static sound from BoC too? or perhaps tape decks bit that degraded "tape" sound from them.....ugh.

just let shit be what it is.

Nah, I'm not letting you get away with that so easily.

I know the sound of tape has been around since... well, the invention of magnetic tape and the '70s were full of wobbly detuned synths 'cos the technology was basically unstable etc.

What I'm fed up with is the repeated use of all of these same signature production quirks. A bit of static isn't mimicking BoC but combining it with children's laughter, someone counting backwards and a warbling mono-synth over the top undoubtedly is.

I'm all for folks taking a tiny element of something they've heard in someone else's music and then running in a different direction with it. Most musicians do that all the time. What disappoints me is taking someone else's sound wholesale and then running in the same direction with it. What is the point in that?

I would probably have let this go if you hadn't have said 'so lame'.

[The Telepathic Kid]

PREACH!

[Negamuse]

Hard to tell sometimes how much of the after-BoC stuff is someone running with an idea and just not pulling it off or a cold cynical attempt to copy. Ive liked plenty of stuff that owes a lot to BoC and disliked more... somehow theres a nugget of something inquantifyable that resonates for me or not.

But im sure a lot of it comes down to what youre exposed to. Sesame street samples are a bit of a 'fraud flag' to me but you can bet someone whos not heard BoC hears that tune and thinks 'wow...' and goes on to all the stuff I missed when I switched off. Meanwhile in another town another BoC virgin is intregued by the buzz over TH and on listening thinks 'meh... just rinsing John Carpenter' and misses all the rest.

Honestly its track titles that give it away for me a lot of the time. Mentions of red moons, etc... stuff straight out of BoC mythology. Cmon... its like second hand references and implanted memories.

[re-phaelam-ed]

I would probably have let this go if you hadn't have said 'so lame'.

definitely not the first.....the first to you maybe.....but does it matter. its just good shit.
really good.

about anyone that copies...who cares...really. how does affect you? the only one it really affects is the person who's blatantly copying. and it won't affect the ones that do it best. that is of course if someone heard this band first, fell in love, then heard the other second only to think THEY were copying.

...see how it can go?

anyways.....who fucking cares. biters will bite. you don't have to listen to it.