Instant Boards of Canada in Ableton

[Mason Bane]

[Cupz]

I like some of the sound-design but most of it is really not like its reference material. As a "vintage synth" pack it might be allright I guess, I wouldn't slap BoC's name on this. I'm glad its that hard to make a pack like this, a testament to their unique sound.

Also, and this is just personal beliefs, I don't think this is how electronic music should be made. I get that sound-design-specialists want to do their thing too, but making these cookiecutter "instantly sound like X" patch-kits are not the way and are making a dent in musical creativity. I guess its all fun and games for fans wanting to toy around, but I've met enough people who actually think they're pro musicians using these to notice it has become a bit of a problem. Make yer own damn sounds.
If you are a sound-designer-specialist I'd recommend finding a composer to work with and make yer own damn musics.

I'm probably taking all this way to passionately and this was probably just a fun little hobby project. Don't mind the Cupz and his wild unfounded accusations.

[Omikron]

I agree with Cupz. Still interesting to listen to though.

[Wildfire]

I like some of the sound-design but most of it is really not like its reference material. As a "vintage synth" pack it might be allright I guess, I wouldn't slap BoC's name on this. I'm glad its that hard to make a pack like this, a testament to their unique sound.

Also, and this is just personal beliefs, I don't think this is how electronic music should be made. I get that sound-design-specialists want to do their thing too, but making these cookiecutter "instantly sound like X" patch-kits are not the way and are making a dent in musical creativity. I guess its all fun and games for fans wanting to toy around, but I've met enough people who actually think they're pro musicians using these to notice it has become a bit of a problem. Make yer own damn sounds.
If you are a sound-designer-specialist I'd recommend finding a composer to work with and make yer own damn musics.

I'm probably taking all this way to passionately and this was probably just a fun little hobby project. Don't mind the Cupz and his wild unfounded accusations.

Amen.

[Mason Bane]

First of all BOC did not "make their own sounds" as you say. They used many sounds of others and also complete rythm and bassline of others, Aquarius for example from Hair, as the whole basis of their song. So if you turn your statements on them there is no BOC ever happening.

Secondly, BOC often just used a quick preset with very little tweaking. Their music was far easier than you imagine.

The pack was easy to do and anyone could have done it for a great inspiration of BOC, but did not want to put in the effort. This give a BOC fan some fun on a Sunday afternoon and nothing more.

[ParticleGhost]

Secondly, BOC often just used a quick preset with very little tweaking. Their music was far easier than you imagine.

an example?

[drillkicker]

This would have been cool as a free set just because I could always use some more drum samples, but anyone who pays money for a sample pack is a sucker in my book.

[drillkicker]

I like some of the sound-design but most of it is really not like its reference material. As a "vintage synth" pack it might be allright I guess, I wouldn't slap BoC's name on this. I'm glad its that hard to make a pack like this, a testament to their unique sound.

Also, and this is just personal beliefs, I don't think this is how electronic music should be made. I get that sound-design-specialists want to do their thing too, but making these cookiecutter "instantly sound like X" patch-kits are not the way and are making a dent in musical creativity. I guess its all fun and games for fans wanting to toy around, but I've met enough people who actually think they're pro musicians using these to notice it has become a bit of a problem. Make yer own damn sounds.
If you are a sound-designer-specialist I'd recommend finding a composer to work with and make yer own damn musics.

I'm probably taking all this way to passionately and this was probably just a fun little hobby project. Don't mind the Cupz and his wild unfounded accusations.

I can agree with this. I used to love sampling a wide variety of recordings as base material for all the crazy effects I was concocting, but now I have so many recordings of my own that it isn't even necessary or fun anymore. I can just sample recordings I made and then sample the recording I make from that sample and keep doing that indefinitely. And even if that gets old I have plenty of acoustic and analog sound sources, including a no-input feedback station and a shortwave radio. It's so much easier and more exciting to record your own sound sources instead of borrowing pre-made ones, which is why people who do so are suckers who are really missing out. "Sound designers" are nothing but scam artists.

First of all BOC did not "make their own sounds" as you say. They used many sounds of others and also complete rythm and bassline of others, Aquarius for example from Hair, as the whole basis of their song. So if you turn your statements on them there is no BOC ever happening.

Secondly, BOC often just used a quick preset with very little tweaking. Their music was far easier than you imagine.

The pack was easy to do and anyone could have done it for a great inspiration of BOC, but did not want to put in the effort. This give a BOC fan some fun on a Sunday afternoon and nothing more.

I'll just paraphrase the synth genius Peter Christopherson and say that the preset is the worst invention ever made.

[Cupz]

"Sound designers" are nothing but scam artists.
I'll just paraphrase the synth genius Peter Christopherson and say that the preset is the worst invention ever made.

Those are strong statements. I slightly agree, which is to say I don't disagree entirely.
Sound designers can be a valuable asset. I've met some that worked duo with composers and that can really work out well. Some have an ear for harmony, some for percussion, some for timbre and sound aesthetic. These are specialists and can do great work in a team. And the world wouldn't be the same if it wasn't for some of the sound designers that worked on all the classic drum machines and keyboards.

And presets can be pretty darn handy if you make them yourself. Pre-installed presets that come with anything should be considered demos and suck balls.

First of all BOC did not "make their own sounds" as you say.
Secondly, BOC often just used a quick preset with very little tweaking. Their music was far easier than you imagine.
The pack was easy to do and anyone could have done it for a great inspiration of BOC, but did not want to put in the effort. This give a BOC fan some fun on a Sunday afternoon and nothing more.

False, false and hope so.

Maybe you're right for couple of old tunes, nlogax and aquarius. That's like five out of a hundred and even then it is done quite sparingly.
But that's all besides the point. I mean, some instruments have only 1 preset and you're not even allowed to change it (case in point: pretty much every non-electronic instrument). And general-midi, something I find interesting, is basically all presets, I guess. And there are some amazing players that know shit about sound design but have amazing fingers. Just these stupid packs and the people that use these to trick others into thinking they are better musicians then they really are. In a way, they pay someone to make their music for them.

I know this all sounds hypocritical and stupid, but that's because, you know, I am.

[Mexicola]

For what it's worth (very little) I have little problem with this. Surely it's what you make with the sounds that really counts? Sure creating new sounds, samples, patches etc can be interesting in it's own right, but I do sometimes feel BOC fans focus too much on the aesthetic and not enough on the actual music. Instagram doesn't make me a good photographer, or a bad one, or a lazy one. It just adds a swirl to the yoghurt that might help me see the images I create in a different light, and it's fun. These patches are the same deal. Use, don't, choice is yours. But have fun surely?

[Cupz]

I guess I agree, mexi. I don't know anything about instagram but I guess using something as spitshine is ok. But you must agree it is a bit different because you shoot your own photos for it. Surely you wouldn't buy photographs, put some instagram on it and parade them around as your own original work?

Would you say someone's a musician using this: ? Cause I've seen some of these packs that are pretty much nothing else. Sure it is fun, but is it art? If that's so then so is following lego instructions

[Mexicola]

I do see the issue some have with this, I assure you. I guess it's validity depends on how it's used and the motives of the craftsman using the tools. Personally I'd always want to find my own sound, but then again, how far do any of us travel away from the root of our influences? It's an interesting discussion.

[Wildfire]

I think that ultimately the more obvious something is plagiarised, the less attractive it is and it therefore becomes less valuable.

I know for a fact I've played around with my SH-101 VST many times to try and replicate certain BOC noises, purely out of curiosity and understanding, however if I ever put out a tune and someone said to me "ah you've used the ROYGBIV bassline noise" or whatever, I'd feel artistically ashamed.

But yes you are right Mexicola, if it's all just for shits and giggles then who cares really.

[Perch]

This thread brought up a lot more viewpoints than I would have suspected from a simple preset pack.

It makes me wonder where a line lies between something like this and something like plunderphonics. Is it purely how you present the work? I feel like a good analogy would be the difference between an essay that relies on rewording others' work vs. one that uses clearly defined quotations.

The more people experiment with the format, the more the gray area grows. I find myself flip flopping nonstop over the ethics of utilizing other's sounds, to the point that I just have to force myself to simply appreciate whether I'm enjoying it or not.

[drillkicker]

I know for a fact I've played around with my SH-101 VST many times to try and replicate certain BOC noises, purely out of curiosity and understanding, however if I ever put out a tune and someone said to me "ah you've used the ROYGBIV bassline noise" or whatever, I'd feel artistically ashamed.

Nah, nobody owns a sound. Just make sure you don't use their whole aesthetic and composition style.

[Cosmic Manta]

Good BoC patch recreations take a lot of time and careful analysis. If you really want to get that sound, you need to do more than making patches that sound similar and calling it a day.

And just as Cupz mentioned earlier in this thread, these “instant BoC” packs really aren't the way to go. Nowadays, it really bugs me when people say that you can get instant BoC if you get 'this sample pack' or 'that synth'. Just because you can make some vaguely BoCish sounds with that stuff doesn't mean that you're instantly making more BoC. And really, synths aren't really what make BoC's music what it is, in my opinion― yes, their patches are amazing, but really, it's the chord progressions and melodies that make the songs what they are.

And again, as Cupz said, why would you even want to sound just like BoC? Sure, it can be nice to imitate them for learning purposes, but if you're just using sample packs to do that, then you're not really learning anything.

[re-phaelam-ed]

Secondly, BOC often just used a quick preset with very little tweaking. Their music was far easier than you imagine.

go for it....
id love to hear something.

[747Music]

Mason Bane, have you not read the interviews with Mike and Marcus? Especially the ones mentioning their process? They actually said if making their music was easy, they wouldn't do it. Also, many mentions of creative audio manipulation including a bloody ice cream bucket, speaker and mic. They traveled how many kilometers and spent how much, just to buy a reverb or chorus device? It has absolutely not been easy in so many ways. Pretty much the only easy thing about it is the choice to make such awesome art, because they find it immensely enjoyable. After that, not straying too far from a synth patch sometimes, but only because that was the sound they felt fit the song properly. Some elements of their process may be more simple in execution, but only because it did not require complexity. Most of their music was really very far from easy to make. I'm having a very difficult time in finding another musician that isn't working as hard as them at achieving their sounds.

Besides, I see no issue in using synth patches at times. They're patches for a reason: They sound good and can also be a quick route to finding that similar sound your thinking of, but can't quite find an exact match for in patch. With a little tweaking, boom, you have your sound faster than doing it strictly manually. This is fantastic for me, as I haven't quite mastered knob twiddling yet. Especially with complex synths.

BoC have made plenty of their own sounds. They have also used other sounds from their past that they have heard from other artists, but with proper permission and even covering the sound or melodies with their own instruments. The Aquarius bass-line isn't a sample, although it is based on that Hair song. It was actually Marcus who played that riff on his bass guitar. And bass guitar and synths are far from the only instruments they play. They play stringed instruments, exotic percussive stuff, drums (Mike was their official drummer back in the 80s when they had more people in the band), flute, guitar, and more. Many years ago I remember seeing a list of some of their instruments, the list seems to have disappeared shortly after being uploaded and I never found out if it was 100% legit (anyone else here remember seeing this?), but the list was massive and included stuff that I've never even heard of. The list's legitimacy wouldn't surprise me as they've mentioned their parents playing instruments and going to family get-togethers where each person would bring any instrument that they thought would be a fun contribution. So a bunch of friends and family would show up and they'd just jam as a big group. I can only imagine this would result in strange and awesome sessions. (I wish people would do this today. I'd be on that faster than Oprah on a glazed ham!)

Yes, they use samples. Most of their voices and sample work in their released material is from their own recordings of friends and family and themselves talking or making sound with various things in various ways. (besides MHTRTC having lots of direct samples from Sesame Street, and a few manipulated news recordings here and there in other work) You can name many direct samples from other artists work, but you will always find far more sample work that comes from themselves. So, yes, BoC makes plenty of their own sounds.

Remember that this is a dedicated Boards of Canada forum. On any dedicated forum, chances are that some user there has a rebuttal based on reliable source (brown source or tomato source? heh heh) vs anyone jumping to conclusions based on their own knowledge of only a portion of the topic of discussion.

Please don't take that as an attack. I'm harboring no ill intent here. That was nothing more than friendly discussion and advice. I do not want this to have any negative effect that might cause you to consider not posting here anymore.

Please take advantage of http://bocpages.org/ Very little that I've mentioned here cannot be found on that wiki somewhere.

[drillkicker]

That's a good point, 747. I think they're putting too much time and effort into getting everything perfect instead of just making a good song and leaving it. When you start getting excessively anal about the music it starts to lose its magic. I want imperfect BoC back so I can enjoy some atmospheric lo-fi flaws.

[Skimming Stone]

That's a good point, 747. I think they're putting too much time and effort into getting everything perfect instead of just making a good song and leaving it. When you start getting excessively anal about the music it starts to lose its magic. I want imperfect BoC back so I can enjoy some atmospheric lo-fi flaws.

I don't think they're trying to make everything perfect, I get the feeling that they just enjoy being excessively anal about the sounds they create. They've said in interviews that they're not fans of 'perfect' music, but I suppose it depends on what your definition of perfect is.