R35 and inconsistent tape speed

[Flory]

I was just messing around in audacity when I found that the track "blueberries" didn't correlate to the cd copy speed wise.

[media]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/ ... istent.mp3[/media]

The following is speculation:
Could this be why we haven't been able to match time stamps to the older discography?

[euphor]

Maybe, I tried putting both copies of Davie Addison and lining them up, they end up going at slightly different speeds around 20 seconds in. I also think they like to change the length of tracks sometimes, which is weird, but can be seen with I Will Get it Tattooed. The two copies of I Will Get It Tattooed are also slightly different pitches.

[747Music]

I like your spirit in trying to get to the bottom of things. Trying to think of things we've perhaps overlooked.

So ya, tape doesn't play at a consistent speed. But unless the person who ripped the tape was using a tape deck running on low batteries or one with pitch control and had the setting at an odd spot, the times shouldn't be very off at all. But ya, it's possible.

A few might match up (heck, A06 already matches to 5D if you account for the fade out going into the song following it on the tape), but even so, I wouldn't count it as being a very reliable method. We may end up tricking ourselves by stretching fiction into a false non-fiction by forcing the tracks into the lengths that fit.

[Soul_Slip]

I like your spirit in trying to get to the bottom of things. Trying to think of things we've perhaps overlooked.

So ya, tape doesn't play at a consistent speed. But unless the person who ripped the tape was using a tape deck running on low batteries or one with pitch control and had the setting at an odd spot, the times shouldn't be very off at all. But ya, it's possible.

A few might match up (heck, A06 already matches to 5D if you account for the fade out going into the song following it on the tape), but even so, I wouldn't count it as being a very reliable method. We may end up tricking ourselves by stretching fiction into a false non-fiction by forcing the tracks into the lengths that fit.

I somewhat disagree, from years of experience, if the original tape was recorded let’s say on a MARANTZ sd1000, then later transferred by a friend on his shitty prosumer JVC dual cassette deck, the speeds definitely could be off, even way off. It also depends on how many heads the deck has. If the original was a three head unit with more than one speed adjustment, it will most certainly have pitch and speed variations when played on the cheaper single or double headed unit. It even gets more fishy if the original deck had a physical bias and peak and VU adjustment like my MARANTZ does,and the newer jvc (as an example) cheapo does not. I run into this issue sometimes. The physical belt conditions can play a major factor in pitch and speed... if recorded on a deck with weaker belts, it will sound faster on a deck with tighter, newer belts. Natural tape wear also can have unwanted effects. My Technics deck sounds like a pro studio with the right settings, but if I play the same tape on a different deck, with different electronics, it always sounds a little off from the original sweet spot. Sometimes it comes out faster sounding and I don’t like it lol. It also depends on what settings the original transfer program was using and the quality of converters

[747Music]

I like your spirit in trying to get to the bottom of things. Trying to think of things we've perhaps overlooked.

So ya, tape doesn't play at a consistent speed. But unless the person who ripped the tape was using a tape deck running on low batteries or one with pitch control and had the setting at an odd spot, the times shouldn't be very off at all. But ya, it's possible.

A few might match up (heck, A06 already matches to 5D if you account for the fade out going into the song following it on the tape), but even so, I wouldn't count it as being a very reliable method. We may end up tricking ourselves by stretching fiction into a false non-fiction by forcing the tracks into the lengths that fit.

I somewhat disagree, from years of experience, if the original tape was recorded let’s say on a MARANTZ sd1000, then later transferred by a friend on his shitty prosumer JVC dual cassette deck, the speeds definitely could be off, even way off. It also depends on how many heads the deck has. If the original was a three head unit with more than one speed adjustment, it will most certainly have pitch and speed variations when played on the cheaper single or double headed unit. It even gets more fishy if the original deck had a physical bias and peak and VU adjustment like my MARANTZ does,and the newer jvc (as an example) cheapo does not. I run into this issue sometimes. The physical belt conditions can play a major factor in pitch and speed... if recorded on a deck with weaker belts, it will sound faster on a deck with tighter, newer belts. Natural tape wear also can have unwanted effects. My Technics deck sounds like a pro studio with the right settings, but if I play the same tape on a different deck, with different electronics, it always sounds a little off from the original sweet spot. Sometimes it comes out faster sounding and I don’t like it lol. It also depends on what settings the original transfer program was using and the quality of converters

I 100% overlooked that. Thank you for bringing that up. I haven't transferred from tape to tape in many, many moons. We know this was at minimum transferred a couple times. Source tape -> Duplicate. Duplicate -> mixtape.

It's still quite hard to tell which song would be which.

Also, it's perhaps most likely that the same two machines used to transfer the songs were used for all the songs on R35T. Since A06 matches times with 5D and if we assume that they are in fact the same song. Then we should have an anchor point. If that track matches timing, then the others should be matching or at least very close, right? Of course, there is still the issue of tape wear, but how much wear leads to a large difference in times? Would the tape wear leave enough evidence audibly to determine time difference at any margin of error?

[Soul_Slip]

Tape wear has a lesser degree of effect but still can. I’d say the timing changes noted in same songs are from a different recorder than the original. The original having a different azimuth alignment adjustment as well as who knows what the belts were like. If they were loose and weak then yes... or if the original had strong belts but the new one had weak... you would get timing “drifts” or overall timing difference. Should see if we can’t calculate wow and flutter between copies... that would nail it on the head. Need a scope though lol
Also, it was transferred when analog>digital converters were of poorer quality than today by far.
Quality of internal electronics such as op amp, capacitor, and preamps also play a major factor. The releases sound very “dirty” which leads me also to believe it was deliberate to some degree. They have mentioned in interviews they used to “damage” tapes by sanpapering them, crumpling them, leaving them in a hot car... etc.... guranteed some of this is what we are also hearing. I will re-listen and post my thoughts back on individual songs. I used to try weird damage effects too... especially with my old grunge rock band “Partially Cloudy”.