Their guitar textures? (via Hainbach)

[Negamuse]

I was watching the latest video from Hainbach on using a combination of electric guitar and vintage test equipment (not necessarily meant for audio even, but really early lab gear) and I couldn't help thinking how similar some of these textures are to things I've heard in some of their stuff. Particularly Campfire era but not only there.



Anyone else hear that? I know they've talked a lot about pushing sound through the old Grundig tape machine which was probably equal parts valve colour as it was tape colour, and I guess this early gear is valve based do it's maybe not surprising. Got to wonder though if they've used similar kit to this, particularly those awesome filters, somewhere in their setup.

(First minute not so much but suddenly...)

[Valotonin]

I had a mono Tandberg reel to reel (before it died on me) that was valve/tube based and had an issue with the motor and the drive belt giving it a really considerable wow and flutter. It naturally made anything one put through it sound beautiful, it didn't require any effort. Gosh I miss my Tandberg.

[Negamuse]

Oh yeah? I've been looking at one of those, well it's been on the short list, but I've got to stick to a budget and the ones that come up on eBay have always been a bit too expensive/broken/far away (no way I'd trust one to be posted, I'd have to collect). One day the right one will come up and I'll jump on it, hopefully something I can restore.

I do like how the last few videos Hainbach has been branching out away from tape though into other analog path gear. Seems like synths and tape have been fairly well covered with this kind of music but you rarely see anyone diving into this odd gear.

[Soul_Slip]

I was a part of a few threads about this. The textures almost exclusively come from the useage of tube tape recorders from the 60’s and 50’s with the “magic eye” tube saturation VU meter as well as specific vintage mixing consoles, compressors and vintage tube preamps plus the experimentation within all of it... such as tape destruction (loop degradation, sandpaper, leaving in a hot car), crunching samples with various compressors and gates/limiters/bit-processors, hardware modification (exchanging of caps, resistors, transistors, breaking tubes (yes, sometimes has a cool effect), circuit bending of various instruments and hardware pieces, also creating physical room effects with mic placements, certain mics, certain amps (one interview they stated they like flatter, crappier sounding amps for some sounds) so it is a large combination of specific hardware, dynamics processing, and happy accidents (spontaneous experimentation)
I highly recommend the Akai M-8 tube crossfield 4 track reel to reel from 1963 or the Revox G36 all tube reel to reel for that “special” warm CH vibe!

[Soul_Slip]

While I haven’t yet read every interview yet, I have always wondered what type of guitar they like or prefer to use? I believe someone mentioned they could hear a Fender Telecaster but there were a lot of guitar sounds on CH, anyone have any idea?

[Valotonin]

Hey Saturday Sun sounds quite a lot like a telecaster. I've heard something resembling a Fender Jazzmaster/Jaguar (almost sonically identical, especially after production) in their other work, but I could be wrong. It is really difficult to tell with acoustic guitars as you don't have the ability to hear the really pronounced differences in pickup windings etc etc. There is heavy usage of acoustic in Campfire Headphase.

[Soul_Slip]

Hey Saturday Sun sounds quite a lot like a telecaster. I've heard something resembling a Fender Jazzmaster/Jaguar (almost sonically identical, especially after production) in their other work, but I could be wrong. It is really difficult to tell with acoustic guitars as you don't have the ability to hear the really pronounced differences in pickup windings etc etc. There is heavy usage of acoustic in Campfire Headphase.

Especially “Peacock Tail”... that one to me is an acoustic masterpiece! It’s like they took every jazz recording production method and applied it with their intricate electronic sampling abilities.... the textures and the emphasis of the delay on the little string slides are amazing...

[Valotonin]

Hey Saturday Sun sounds quite a lot like a telecaster. I've heard something resembling a Fender Jazzmaster/Jaguar (almost sonically identical, especially after production) in their other work, but I could be wrong. It is really difficult to tell with acoustic guitars as you don't have the ability to hear the really pronounced differences in pickup windings etc etc. There is heavy usage of acoustic in Campfire Headphase.

Especially “Peacock Tail”... that one to me is an acoustic masterpiece! It’s like they took every jazz recording production method and applied it with their intricate electronic sampling abilities.... the textures and the emphasis of the delay on the little string slides are amazing...

This yes!
I have always adored the use of timed delay on the guitar portion of the tracks.
I noticed how the sliding of fingers from one chord to the next is often incorporated into their work. In Hey Saturday Sun it is effectively part of the percussion and you get more of the same in Peacock Tail.

[soundxplorer]

Very cool stuff, though the "test equipment" aspect is not so much a secret recipe as the same circuit concepts can be found in many effects pedals and/or synths. Mostly what I hear in that video is different forms of distortion and fuzz (particularly transistor-based fuzz, which can produce that sputtering sound with certain settings). Lowpass filtering and amplitude modulation (ring mod) are in there too.

Not to detract from the idea of course, I agree everything in the video sounded really great. Another factor is of course good taste and musicianship. Not everyone could coax those sounds out of that giant collection of gear, yet some talented people could do the same with a small handful of cheap guitar pedals too.

[Soul_Slip]

Very cool stuff, though the "test equipment" aspect is not so much a secret recipe as the same circuit concepts can be found in many effects pedals and/or synths. Mostly what I hear in that video is different forms of distortion and fuzz (particularly transistor-based fuzz, which can produce that sputtering sound with certain settings). Lowpass filtering and amplitude modulation (ring mod) are in there too.

Not to detract from the idea of course, I agree everything in the video sounded really great. Another factor is of course good taste and musicianship. Not everyone could coax those sounds out of that giant collection of gear, yet some talented people could do the same with a small handful of cheap guitar pedals too.

While i agree that not everyone could achieve those sounds with that gear, I don’t entirely agree that the same could be achieved with cheap guitar pedals as I am aware of the internal hardware differences between high-end gear, vintage gear, and cheaper modern gear including pedals, though I have read that some newer pedals are now incorporating vintage wiring designs which is awesome and hope that sort of becomes the new standard. A lot of what we hear in BoC is “specific” tone achieved with a specific type of wiring/circuitry that can still be somewhat achieved elsewhere but still requires that special piece to achieve a certain end result.... for example.... the difference between a cheap tape delay pedal as opposed to real wow and flutter and real delay between multiple tape heads along with the more intricate wiring and internal hardware in a 4 track reel to reel with sound on sound echo or even an original ehoplex.... and while the listener may not know the difference, the difference is there.... certain compressors also have a certain sound that simply isn’t available unless you have access.... i wish i had more revenue haha so I could have access to some of the things I know some of these artist have... like a really high end sampler/sequencer... My audio engineering mentor once showed me how he could mod a cheap stereo receiver to have the same capabilities as a $1000-$3000 model... he explained some of the differences between high end and low end and even vintage gear... I was completely blown away by what he did, and while I am unaware of just what exactly he was doing, I did take note that he upgraded most of the capacitors, some resistors and a few other internal components and after I was blown away by how much better it sounded, it made me realize that there maybe a side to audio engineering that I have very little knowledge of... and when I read BoC interviews about their process.... I see the same thing or something very similar.... I am very curious as to what brand/model and year their preferred guitar amp is.... I would imagine it is some obscured vintage tube amp that probably doesn’t sound that good compared to today’s standards but I feel it may give them that “special little warmth” whatever kind it is....

[Soul_Slip]

You know, you got me thinking.... I decided to try and record something simple onto a cassette with a basic tube preamp and a cheap little amp and my telecaster and I was actually more surprised at how vintage it sounded with minimal hardware.... I guess I retract some of what I said haha

[Geogandhi]

You couldn't get the exact same sonics as that old test equipment with pedals at all. Every cap, every diode, every single component that the current goes through will affect the sound even if we can't hear it per component. The culmanative effect that a circuit has on the sound is evident in how analogue synths are still relevant today. We're getting real close to software emulation and all but that's a different argument. Making a similar sound with pedals of course is possible but that too would have it's own sonic fingerprints. Neither one is better, that's all subjective.

Obviously when we are comparing sounds to this degree it's so marginal that many people simply wouldn't care for that difference if at all let themselves hear it, but it's there. If you build a track up of many tracks all with varying and lengthy routes of manipulation it will sound so much fuller, alive, noisy, real (and way harder to mix) than the same track made with very similar sounds that were made inside the box. Take Syro vs Druqks for instance, both amazing but totally different sound. That's all taste though, many people would hear both and possibly go for the one with the most clarity in high end and where every intstrument seems to have it's own room. As a BoC fan, I assume we prefer shit that is welded together and we can't identify what is doing what, indistinguishable elements merging making new unheard textures.

The thing with high end gear being better is completely wrong, of course it's going to sound way more "professional". But we have to take era into consideration too, the older the high end gear the more character due to components. High end gear was always striving for cleaner sound and it gets there eventually. In our genre of taste and of course when talking about BoC, clean is boring. So either old gear or cheap gear is where we can hear these interesting timbres.
When it come to BoC I think it's the vast manipulation and the lengthy route they take the sounds is key to how they get their unique timbres and why no one can nail their sound exactly. That's why any BoC fakes tend to aim for early work vibes as they would have a better chance of getting there due to the Bros doing less to their sounds.

Ramble ramble ramble! Soz

[Soul_Slip]

Yeah I definitely agree with you, i have noticed my akai m-8 preamps sound way more sonically alive and warm and present then my little tube preamp stomp box with two little tubes in it. Most people i know gut the M-8 and convert the two preamps into a stereo guitar preamp which still sounds amazing with just the preamps... i would definitely like to learn more about circuitry modding like my audio engineering mentor by the name of Travis does. I will post a clip of the sound that my old revere 1950’s tube mono reel to reel sounds like with my telecaster

[Geogandhi]

Def do that, would like to hear.
I'm sorting my studio out right now so when I get my guitars back in i'll do the same with my teac 80-8 and also the teac 144.
I love putting guits through old vintage synths too, you can get some great tones and ideas.

[ParticleGhost]

Def do that, would like to hear.
I'm sorting my studio out right now so when I get my guitars back in i'll do the same with my teac 80-8 and also the teac 144.
I love putting guits through old vintage synths too, you can get some great tones and ideas.

I've got a Teac 144 as well! Good little machine. I'd love to get an 80-8 someday....

[Geogandhi]

Nice, I have not used mine that much as it was a random junk shop purchase while I was still building my studio. Looking forward to getting to know it though. Had the 80-8 for years and run many a thing through it, even full album mixes.

[Soul_Slip]

Nice, I have not used mine that much as it was a random junk shop purchase while I was still building my studio. Looking forward to getting to know it though. Had the 80-8 for years and run many a thing through it, even full album mixes.

I also wish I had an 80-8... would love the extra tracks and the warmth... add a few high end tube amps and bam! Would sound prime

[soundxplorer]

You couldn't get the exact same sonics as that old test equipment with pedals at all.

I agree that nothing will ever sound exactly the same as something else. I've owned plenty of vintage and modern synthesizers to know there can often be some mojo that is very difficult to recreate no matter how hard you try. But you can certainly get close.

If you look at my original post I was talking more about the types of processing being done with that gear. Some people might have the incorrect impression that the test equipment in the video is performing audio processing concepts that can't be found in other gear. So I was just pointing out that it is using very common elements that are found in most analog synthesizers and some FX devices. I'm referring to things like filtering, amplitude modulation, frequency modulation, etc.

So with that in mind, guitar pedals and/or cheap analog synths can certainly get you in the ballpark, or at least to a good starting point. Then record to cheap analog tape (or even VHS) to add saturation and you'll be even closer. I was just trying to say you don't need giant racks of test equipment from the 1940s to experiment with those types of sounds.

[Soul_Slip]

You couldn't get the exact same sonics as that old test equipment with pedals at all.

I agree that nothing will ever sound exactly the same as something else. I've owned plenty of vintage and modern synthesizers to know there can often be some mojo that is very difficult to recreate no matter how hard you try. But you can certainly get close.

If you look at my original post I was talking more about the types of processing being done with that gear. Some people might have the incorrect impression that the test equipment in the video is performing audio processing concepts that can't be found in other gear. So I was just pointing out that it is using very common elements that are found in most analog synthesizers and some FX devices. I'm referring to things like filtering, amplitude modulation, frequency modulation, etc.

So with that in mind, guitar pedals and/or cheap analog synths can certainly get you in the ballpark, or at least to a good starting point. Then record to cheap analog tape (or even VHS) to add saturation and you'll be even closer. I was just trying to say you don't need giant racks of test equipment from the 1940s to experiment with those types of sounds.

Yeah absolutely, I wasn’t causing an argument or anything ha just sharing what I know from experience and from reading, but, itwould certainly be fun to experiment with that gear. Anything from that same era as the test equipment will still sound super warm and analog as the standard circuitry from those days was similar in many ways

[Alvin]

Some great posts in this thread.

I’ll add that an aspect to their particular brand of magic is the way they seem to pursue ‘flukes’. Certain sonic elements sound as if they would only sound that way once and only once and were ‘captured’ on tape. Similarly I imagine certain gear they have might be prized for a sound that is unique to that one and only unit. Even though most of the machines we are talking about were mass produced (albeit in small batches and not to the same exacting tolerances as now) each one that has survived this long will have gathered its own imperfections and character. This degradation of components also brings an element of nature back into these industrial devices. Corrosion and heat stress could be likened to the appeal of weathered stone in architecture. But of course there’s a fine balance to be struck before functionality is compromised. The further in time we get from the mid 20th Century the rarer these working antiques will become.