Gaza, 1000+ killed, and counting...

hexagon son · Post by **hexagon son** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:52 pm

eppers wrote:
The Friendly Stranger wrote:
eppers wrote:
WARNING: THIS IS VERY EXPLICIT CONTENT.
if you don't have the guts for this, don't click it..

Not what it seems. Check your sources people.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephill ... name.thtml

being ignorant is having a stupid opinion, or not to have an opinion.
you're spreading rumors and lies.. THIS IS THE LINE, do not fucking cross it!

"But it's safe to assume the line has been crossed when you hear someone urging Jews ‘back to the ovens.’"

sacred_geometry · Post by **sacred_geometry** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 6:05 pm

I respect your right to an opinion Eppers, but frankly your opinion is one of an extremist. Both sides can be blamed for the violence here. But violence in Gaza wouldn't even have been a reality if Israel hadn't (generously) decided gave it back to the Palestinians a few years ago...which begs the question: what have the Palestinians accomplished since then? Well, Qassam and homemade rockets have been fired into Israel continuously since Hamas was elected by the Palestinians. Israel has the right to respond to this constant threat....and the sad part is that Hamas has set up their operations in places which purposely pose a great danger to their citizens.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:26 pm

sacred_geometry wrote:I respect your right to an opinion Eppers, but frankly your opinion is one of an extremist. Both sides can be blamed for the violence here. But violence in Gaza wouldn't even have been a reality if Israel hadn't (generously) decided gave it back to the Palestinians a few years ago...which begs the question: what have the Palestinians accomplished since then? Well, Qassam and homemade rockets have been fired into Israel continuously since Hamas was elected by the Palestinians. Israel has the right to respond to this constant threat....and the sad part is that Hamas has set up their operations in places which purposely pose a great danger to their citizens.

my opinion is one of an extremist?
so I = Hamas now? aye?
Ok, fuck politics, let me highlight some of my personal experiences, and believe me, most people had it worse than i did.
For days and days, I couldn't sleep due to constant bombings in Ramallah back in 2003-04, Israeli soldiers came into my place, put all the building in one apartment, and used the others.
Ate, drank, threw garbage everywhere, shat everywhere, used towels as toilet papers, and that was barely anything.
they bombed the building next to my place, my family and I ran in the streets, sometimes slept on the floor of the corridor so the bullets won't get to us if they would somehow enter the house, moved 3 times from dangerous locations, I cried the 1st time they opened the curfew, to me Ramallah was one of the most beautiful places, seeing destruction and debris everywhere just go to me, got abused by the israeli forces when I tried to go to school because where I lived in was close to the place where yasser arafat's headquarters, I get abused everytime i cross the borders, investigation, trying to recruit me into their intelligence, got all my toys confiscated because they were mostly electronic (gameboy...etc) when I moved from amman jordan, to Palestine back in 1994, got stopped on checkpoints for hours countlessly, closed my ears and opened my mouth when the F-16 gets close to the ground before a strike, tanks shook my belongings that happen to sit on the edges on my desk when they moved near the house, had to stay far away from windows just in case of snipers..

And I told you, I had it good.

NOONE I know got killed by the israeli army, and that's how shitty i feel about them, imagine people who's whole family's got killed...

Israel has a plan towards the whole thing, they worked hard on splitting up the government into small pieces, hamas being one of those pieces, pressured them to their maximum limits, in gaza, provoked them constantly by bombings, what do they expect? they gave them no choice but war.

and about the pulling out of gaza, Israel knew it was doing, for it's operation to work successfully, and for gaza's imprisonment to work, they should remove all close possible targets by hamas, so believe me, they knew what they were doing before anything happened.

they moved out, the next day, they started bombing with fighter jets and helicopters.

Israel has right to respond to constant threat?
so far, 900+ Palestinians are killed, 284 children and 100 women.

284 children and 100 women are the threat to Israel now, ah?

Israel knows what it's doing, so far they rejected all UN possible solutions to this scenario, bombed with white phosphorus bombs, and used more illegal weapons... go israel, killing civillians is the way to go!

You can't discuss stuff unless you were in the situation... You think most Palestinian's don't want to live peacefully and have full, and happy lives? but when they devoid you of every reason to live, I think it would be a high probability that you would want to seek revenge..

violence causes more violence, I don't think Israel is safe anymore for Israelis, because they just breeded generations of people who wanted to seek revenge..

I think it's safe to say that Israel is the modern-day Nazism, all diplomatic and shit.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 8:28 pm

hexagon son wrote:
eppers wrote:
The Friendly Stranger wrote:

Not what it seems. Check your sources people.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephill ... name.thtml

being ignorant is having a stupid opinion, or not to have an opinion.
you're spreading rumors and lies.. THIS IS THE LINE, do not fucking cross it!
"But it's safe to assume the line has been crossed when you hear someone urging Jews ‘back to the ovens.’"

it's normal to see someone who says these things in light of what's happening, people got really angry now.. if the situation was calmer, noone would have said anything..

and i think it's safe to consider you pro-israeli now.

sacred_geometry · Post by **sacred_geometry** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:15 pm

Well, I know I cannot relate to your personal experience actually living there, and I think you make some good points. Violence does indeed breed more violence. The number of civilians killed by Israel in this conflict is unwarranted and atrocious. But comparing Israel's policies to the Nazi's and believing that Israel deliberately pulled out of Gaza in order to continue the cycle of violence against the Palestinians makes it very hard to take what you're saying seriously.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:59 pm

sacred_geometry wrote:Well, I know I cannot relate to your personal experience actually living there, and I think you make some good points. Violence does indeed breed more violence. The number of civilians killed by Israel in this conflict is unwarranted and atrocious. But comparing Israel's policies to the Nazi's and believing that Israel deliberately pulled out of Gaza in order to continue the cycle of violence against the Palestinians makes it very hard to take what you're saying seriously.

oh no you got me there. :/

The Friendly Stranger · Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:58 am

eppers wrote:
The Friendly Stranger wrote:
eppers wrote:
WARNING: THIS IS VERY EXPLICIT CONTENT.
if you don't have the guts for this, don't click it..

Not what it seems. Check your sources people.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/melaniephill ... name.thtml
check my sources, you ignorant fool? I fucking live there, who the fuck are you to tell me what is real and what is not?
hamas didn't do weapon parades back in 2005, fatah was in control and fatah would have fucked them up, they couldn't do anything in public..

check my sources, eh?
check your brain, check if there is one in the 1st place.

never do shit like this again, it's not just ignorant, it's beyond ignorant..
being ignorant is having a stupid opinion, or not to have an opinion.
you're spreading rumors and lies.. THIS IS THE LINE, do not fucking cross it!

instead of trying to spread random propaganda, then wanking off, have a life and get on with some reading, it's a shame that the world shelters ignorance that has reached this point of stupidity.

i'm definitely not pleased with this.

What rumours and lies have I spread exactly? Surely there's more evidence to suggest that the video is NOT depicting the events of Jan 3rd 2009. I am not denying that Israel are not bombing Gaza, just that this video does not relate directly to the atrocities we are discussing. I'm also not trying to suggest that you were deliberately attempting to deceive anybody in posting the link.

Please be aware that the more you rant like this, the less likely it is that people will take your points seriously. I never wrote that post with the intention of angering you or anybody else, I simply feel that if we're going to discuss such a serious issue then we should make sure that all sources are apprpriate to the debate.

I can't imagine what this situation must be like for you and fellow palestinians but accusing everyone around you won't do any good.

hexagon son · Post by **hexagon son** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:10 am

but i am pro-israel! i never denied that! i am also pro-palestine. what i am is anti-hamas and anti-iranian theocracy government. i've never condoned here that i think killing innocent civilians is right. but if hamas wants guerilla warfare then now they have it. hamas have been nothing but cowards in my eyes.

and yes, the world is at fault here for not doing more in the first place. unfortunately i dont think israel will be at the bargaining table any time soon with hamas, at it regards them as nothing more than terrorists. we are in the same situation as we were when you had yasser arafat as a leader.

you will never see me sympathise with a political group that resorts to suicide bombings on civilian buses. my sympathies are with palestinian civilians.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 1:14 pm

This subject shouldn't be in debate. Its horrible, its inhuman, everyone is victim.

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Bertrand Russell

turquoise70 · Post by **turquoise70** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Cupz wrote:This subject shouldn't be in debate. Its horrible, its inhuman, everyone is victim.

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Bertrand Russell

i think the thing that's really important to us, right here, is that we still respect each other after this thread is over/locked (depending on where it goes from here). war is the real enemy. this is just twoism.

hexagon son · Post by **hexagon son** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:06 pm

turquoise70 wrote:
Cupz wrote:This subject shouldn't be in debate. Its horrible, its inhuman, everyone is victim.

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Bertrand Russell
i think the thing that's really important to us, right here, is that we still respect each other after this thread is over/locked (depending on where it goes from here). war is the real enemy. this is just twoism.

agreed

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:08 pm

turquoise70 wrote:
Cupz wrote:This subject shouldn't be in debate. Its horrible, its inhuman, everyone is victim.

"War does not determine who is right - only who is left."
Bertrand Russell
i think the thing that's really important to us, right here, is that we still respect each other after this thread is over/locked (depending on where it goes from here). war is the real enemy. this is just twoism.

seconded..
i'd really appreciate if noone opened debates anymore..
main problem here is that civillians are getting killed in massive numbers.. and that's the biggest problem currently.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:08 pm

1000+ killed

blue_olson · Post by **blue_olson** » Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:10 am

I believe both sides in Gaza are pathological and it is up to outside influences either from Europe or more realistically from an American administration under Obama to bring about a possible solution.
The only way is a two state scenario and a recognised state of Palestine alongside Israel.
It is long overdue.
My thoughts are always with the Palestinian people. Surely no-one on this Earth has suffered as much as they have for so long under the cold,hard boot of Zionist policy.
It amazes me how they to this day they command so much respect and maintain their dignity.
A Beautiful people and thankfully I have had the pleasure of meeting many.

Shame on Israel.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Fri Jan 16, 2009 12:22 pm

1130+

hexagon son · Post by **hexagon son** » Sat Jan 17, 2009 10:06 pm

just woke up to read that israel has agreed to the seize-fire. this is good news. i just hope now that some real dialogue can come to the table and not just rhetoric from both sides. i pray for peace in the region and for the 100's of palestinian children lives that were lost.

hungry_manweaselbeast · Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:10 am

ceasefire ... and looks like neither side is actually backing down just yet

turquoise70 · Post by **turquoise70** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 12:50 am

hungry_manweaselbeast wrote:ceasefire ... and looks like neither side is actually backing down just yet

is it me, or does a "ceasefire" from these groups always amount to "we're reloading"?

hungry_manweaselbeast · Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:08 pm

just seen this on another forum i use and thought i'd throw it in the pot

Metacognition wrote:Okay... regardless of your opinion on warfare and so forth in general, I've just enjoyed a lengthy conversation with an ex-forces friend of mine about this sort of thing, and for a number of reasons, I have always held a morbid fascination with military technology, and especially the development of directed energy weapons, which has been something I have been keeping an eye on since I was a kid.

I believe I've posted some of the old test vids before, but suffice it to say, that the US-Israeli ANTI-MISSILE LASER SYSTEM, formerly known as M-THEL (Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser) has progressed to the point where they have started making adverts to publicise it. For those who can't be bothered to watch the clip, this is a fully-functional laser system which fits on the back of a truck, and will interdict incoming artillery shells, rockets or mortar rounds within seconds and destroy them with a beam of light.

This is something that I consider simultaneously very very impressive and fascinating and also deeply disturbing.

eppers · Post by **eppers** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:44 am

The ceasefire is on, thankfully... but the numbers are still somewhat increasing due to found bodies, and injuries dying.

1315 killed.