Music making discussion: Bass

ninetyoneplus · Post by **ninetyoneplus** » Tue May 26, 2009 5:52 am

I've been having a lot of trouble with bass lately. While bass is not as important to our type of music (I'm not even gonna try to define it) as it is to most genres of electronic music, it still is pretty important to the feeling of a song. How do you guys go about dealing with bass?

saturdayindex · Post by **saturdayindex** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:08 am

I would disagree that bass is not as important to "our type of music". I think bass is important to every genre. Bass is base (often). And there is a lot to bass, just as there is to carp and tuna.

Any Good Musician can Deal with Bass by answering some of the following questions:

What am I trying to say with my track?
Do I want bass in my track? Why or Why not?
If yes, How much bass do I want in my track?
Should the bass be snappy? Should it be sharp? Or should it be flat and round? Should it be prickly like cactus? Or should it be soft and warm and fuzzy like a shag rug? Should it carry a melody? Or should it carry only the tonics of the overlying chords? Should it be fat and wide, or thin and narrow? Should it be syncopated, or should it only sound on the downbeats? Should it sound analog or digital? Should it be friendly, or should it be a bit angry? Should it be a simple sine wave, or a combobulation of waveforms, samples, and distortions? Should it be run through a low pass filter? Or should it take up a good bit of the spectrum?

Once you've gotten to know your Bass well, you'll be happy using it in your track.

(sorry, I'm tired)

ninetyoneplus · Post by **ninetyoneplus** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:15 am

Hehe. But relatively, you rarely find ambient/psychadelic downtempo that puts a lot of focus on bass, relative to other genres like dubstep and electro. Seriously, how does one make bass sound good?

saturdayindex · Post by **saturdayindex** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:23 am

Yeah, forgive my first post, I am a bit tired and out of it.

Well, yes, I think some genres, like progressive trance, etc. make a lot of emphasis on the bass (often played on the upbeats rather than the downbeats).

But if you listen to BOC, they actually put a great deal of emphasis on the bass, although it's perhaps not as pronounced and obvious unless you're listening specifically to it.

Bass is rarely more than a tone at a time. And most usually, the tonic. But if you play for instance a bass note on the mediant (third note of the scale of the chord you're using), you can elicit some deeper emotions. Also try playing the bass on the submediant (sixth note) during a triad chord, which changes the chord completely, and it's not really even chord anymore, but it will create a more complex sound eliciting yet another emotion.

Hmm, another idea about bass, try to avoid using square waves, unless you carefully filter them. Also try mixing waveforms. For held bass a lot of times some triangles+sines and a low-pass filter can create a nice soft sound.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:56 am

I love putting chorus on bass lately. It gives it extra depth. I also use Camelphat allot for my basses.

And if it wasn't for bass, I wouldn't be able to make the music I make today.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:57 am

saturdayindex wrote: Hmm, another idea about bass, try to avoid using square waves, unless you carefully filter them.

What about a distorted, low pass square bass??? I love to play around with that.

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 6:51 pm

Sorry if this is a bit of topic but... Has anybody ever had a go at layering a few sounds together to try and get a thicker sounding bass? I've always been interested in getting a high frequency sound layered over a 'subby' bass sound to almost make it appear as if it could be a guitar string resonating or some static, that sort of thing.

Whenever I go for a bass sound it always seems to be the case that it's just one sound source and no layering whatsoever, often just a sine wave if it's really 'subby'. I would however like to get a bit more creative using multiple sound sources along with EQ etc. to try and craft something a bit more interesting. Does anyone have any tips on the sort of thing that runs through their mind when performing such a task? What are your thoughts?

Any response is much appreciated, cheers.

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:21 pm

I am exually thinking about getting a bass-guitar

saturdayindex · Post by **saturdayindex** » Tue May 26, 2009 7:41 pm

Edgar wrote:Sorry if this is a bit of topic but... Has anybody ever had a go at layering a few sounds together to try and get a thicker sounding bass? I've always been interested in getting a high frequency sound layered over a 'subby' bass sound to almost make it appear as if it could be a guitar string resonating or some static, that sort of thing.

YESSSS. Adding a high frequency but very quiet sound on top makes it more dimensional. Perhaps even +7 semitones.

Think about using a very subdued noise oscillator as well...

Cupz, I'll have to play around with your idea of using square wave...

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:06 pm

Quality, thank you! The idea of introducing another sound on top with a difference of a perfect fifth could sound very nice. I might even experiment with the distance in semitones. I bet a tritone would sound really uneasy, especially if it was barely audible but you could just feel its presence. Id never thought of layering different notes on top of the bass, but thanks to you i'll be doing plenty of that.

Cheers saturdayindex.

Get the bass Cupz! It could be very interesting to work with a guitar right from the source instead of trying to introduce higher frequencies to emulate one (like me

). Plus it will be good fun to noodle about with for sure.

saturdayindex · Post by **saturdayindex** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:12 pm

Edgar wrote:Quality, thank you! The idea of introducing another sound on top with a difference of a perfect fifth could sound very nice. I might even experiment with the distance in semitones. I bet a tritone would sound really uneasy, especially if it was barely audible but you could just feel its presence. Id never thought of layering different notes on top of the bass, but thanks to you i'll be doing plenty of that.

Cheers saturdayindex.

Get the bass Cupz! It could be very interesting to work with a guitar right from the source instead of trying to introduce higher frequencies to emulate one (like me ). Plus it will be good fun to noodle about with for sure.

I'm not sure about the tritone idea--could sound rather imbalanced/dissonant with most chords. But perhaps it could work, give it a go and let me know how it turns out, I'm interested.

By the way, welcome to Twoism! Good to have you.

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 8:28 pm

Yeah you could be right there, it is a bit of a weird interval to work with but i'll definitely give it a look into and see what happens.
Thanks for the greeting as well, I don't know why it took me so long to get on here, i've been into BOC for years as well as making my own music so I guess this forum is a quality place for me to visit and learn as well as discuss

All the best.

nurthice · Post by **nurthice** » Tue May 26, 2009 9:59 pm

Introducing quiet tones on top.. well this is what subtractive synths and bass guitar do anyways with the inherent harmonics

Other than that, harmonies (as chords) in a bassline can make mixing a hell, i think.
It's cool to emphasize harmonic content sometimes, when the bassline is melodic and you want it more audible. Light distortions, or an exciter, can be great for that. It can make the bass audible on small speakers(even laptop).
I think the greatest problem with bass is how to make it loud enough without masking the kick and making a boomy and muddy mix. A parametric eq can help a lot.

ninetyoneplus · Post by **ninetyoneplus** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:04 pm

Adding a light flanger to the higher frequencies of bass can sound cool if you can do it right. What are you guys using to make bass? I have fairly standard VSTs for pads and such but nothing good for bass. Suggestions?

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:10 pm

Yeah I agree with you there Nurthice. Often I find myself cutting and boosting around the low end to get the kick and bass to sit pretty, after much tweaking it seems to do the trick though. I see what you mean about chords in the bass line and I don't think I've ever tried using more than one note at a time to be honest.
I could do with reading up on these exciters as well, they sound like interesting bits of kit.

Again, pretty off topic but since we're talking bass does anybody have a subwoofer in their studio setup? Would you say it is necessary to get a true depiction of what your mix actually sounds like? This is supposing you already have a fairly decent pair of near-field monitors that can "theoretically" respond all the way down the spectrum.
I'd thought about purchasing one thats all and I just wondered whether it would be a worthy investment.

Cheers

lawrenke · Post by **lawrenke** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:11 pm

ninetyoneplus wrote:Adding a light flanger to the higher frequencies of bass can sound cool if you can do it right. What are you guys using to make bass? I have fairly standard VSTs for pads and such but nothing good for bass. Suggestions?

What DAW are you using? Logic has a few decent synthesizers which are pretty good all-round. The monophonic synth is good for bass I'd say, as is the ES1.

In terms of non-bundled stuff:

http://kunz.corrupt.ch/?Products:VST_TAL-BassLine

A great free SH101 modelling synth.

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:15 pm

ninetyoneplus wrote:Adding a light flanger to the higher frequencies of bass can sound cool if you can do it right. What are you guys using to make bass? I have fairly standard VSTs for pads and such but nothing good for bass. Suggestions?

Rob Papen's Albino is a nice VST soft synth. I don't know if your into dubstep or anything like that but I know a lot of big name producers in that scene use it, it's definitely worth looking at anyway.

Apart from that have you looked at any of the Native Instruments plug-ins? Absynth is quality for pad sounds and FM8 is an all round good soft synth.

And good idea with the flanger on the higher frequencies as well, I've not tried that but I shall give it a go!

Nice one for the link Lawrenke.

bleak. · Post by **bleak.** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:16 pm

i rarely use bass, but my juno is brilliant when i do. personally speaking its all to do with the sustain and release used. the roland sh-101 is also lovely for bass lines. i always prefer playing live bass though. i usually record through my bass amp with line out. as saturdayindex mentioned, BOC are the kings of subtle bass - its all about the tone and texture.

Edgar · Post by **Edgar** » Tue May 26, 2009 10:19 pm

http://www.robpapen.com/subboombass.html

I've not heard any reviews from anyone about this but judging by the name I reckon it might be handy for the lower end of things

88marquis · Post by **88marquis** » Wed May 27, 2009 2:04 am

Cupz wrote:I am exually thinking about getting a bass-guitar

Excellent! What are you thinking about getting?

I've been slappin' since age 12 - playing bass is fantastic.

I actually just began putting bass riffs in my tunes. I have a thing about the bass sounding clean and well defined, and by that I mean a clear bass tone that doesn't distract from a lead riff/melody - I like the bass to fill in the track rather than be the track if you know what I mean.

As far as how to produce a good bassy tone, the microKorg actually can produce some excellent bass itself - otherwise finding a simple VST synth could work too if you have a midi controller. I prefer playing the riff on my bass along with the music before I make anything final, I can do so much more on a physical instrument than I can with programming a riff/melody.