Are Boccers gun owners?

[zeitgeist]

"a well armed populace is the best defense against tyranny."

no, but seriously, i own a colt .45 six-shooter that i bought last year to keep on my pack belt when i went on a backpacking trip to alaska. cost me almost a thousand fucking dollars. i had a couple close calls with some large fucking grizzlies, so i was very glad to have it on me, but never had to do any shoot-em-up. other than that, i will occasionally take it with me when i go up in the mountains alone here in utah at night...not just for the cougars, but also for the crazy fundamentalist mormons who may be lurking in the bushes....

all that said, i'm not really a gun person at all. none of my family was ever into hunting or anything. it just becomes an undeniable necessity for certain activities i involve myself in from time to time. you wouldn't catch me solo hiking the PCT without a 'piece', but i wouldn't ever carry into the local mall or school for example (although it's legal here in UT w/permit). this is the first gun i've ever owned, and i don't plan on buying any more unless that also becomes a undeniable necessity.

88marquis--i haven't heard anyone talk of paintballing for years. i used to work at a paintball shop that my neighbor ran near milwaukee. it was good times. i just ran their website so i wasn't entirely into it all, but it was pretty fun. they had a speedball inflatable course in their yard and were all shooting angels and the whole nine. that's all some crazy shit for those who really get into it, eh?

[turquoise70]

here are my further thoughts:

rather I feel that, if anything, the world is becoming more violent - and that good people just need to be prepared for any eventuality.

if the bad people get violent, and the good people get violent, there won't be any good people. only alive people with blood on their hands and dead people with blood on their hands.

what is more important: the distinction between an alive person and a dead person, or the distinction between a good person and a bad person? you may think it's a no-brainer. in this age it's almost a given that life takes precedent over the ability to morally do anything, period. i'm not so sure i agree. then again my personality was formed under conditions of constant social victimization, so i am strange and probably suicidal.

no amount of idealism will save us.

no amount of idealism will do anything, ever. in this world there are only bullets, humans, and ex-humans. the humans that haven't been turned into ex-humans yet have all sorts of strong feelings about things without which their lives would be worthless and they may as well die. one of my strong feelings is that i can't fire a bullet into another human and make them an ex-human, or else my life is worthless and i may as well die. oh the hangups we have!

We have to do what the human family has always done - defend ourselves.

but my friend this IS an ideology. i am willing to say that, in fact, we will defend ourselves, come the time. but to me it makes no sense to ascribe some value to this action. this is just something that happens, and no matter who wins the outcome is sad. i am one of those people who, at a football game, after one team has won and the other has lost, people ask me how i feel or which team i was rooting for, and i say "football is exploitative."

then again, don't listen to me. people in my philosophy classes hated the hell out of me because i always advanced the view that there is no right answer in some situations and there is no way to escape the horror and negativity of life. whether you or the other gunman survives, the fact that you were in the situation in the first place is enough to make me cry. perhaps i am soft-boiled? funny that we instate these rules to protect milquetoasts like me in the first place. let the bullets fly so that those who find gunfighting to be soul-crushing may survive! catch-22. there is no right answer. people get frustrated and shout "when can we feel like we've done the right thing? who in your awful fucked-up mind is doing the right thing? how can we 'win' this game of life, striking the balance between a peaceful person and a dead person?" i say never. we're fucked, fucked, fucked. the choice is only for you: live or die. i choose to live as long as i can without doing anything that would cause me to believe my life is worthless, one of those actions being to kill another man. then again, i've never done it. so we'll see, we'll see.

[ninetyoneplus]

"a well armed populace is the best defense against tyranny."

no, but seriously, i own a colt .45 six-shooter that i bought last year to keep on my pack belt when i went on a backpacking trip to alaska. cost me almost a thousand fucking dollars. i had a couple close calls with some large fucking grizzlies, so i was very glad to have it on me, but never had to do any shoot-em-up.

wouldn't a .45 just annoy a grizzly more than anything?

[zeitgeist]

..no, i'm pretty sure you'd unfortunately blow its face off. hollow points.

but in retrospect, as a relatively sympathetic animal lover, maybe i should just stop hiking before i am forced to pull the trigger? ...or, as any organism would do, is it simply just a more advanced form of a "caveman-kills-lion-with-club-in-defense" scenario at that point?

[turquoise70]

i'd also just like to pop in real quick to mention that yes, i do realize that nobody in their right mind is going to want to agree with me. this is not news to me. i know my viewpoint is not a viable, healthy one that can be taken out into the world to live a normal human life. i am not down-to-earth in that regard, in my views on violence and morality i am not down-to-earth at all. but if i do not follow the convictions of my heart, i may as well be dead, so on i go insisting that all harm everywhere is a tragedy. before anyone asks jokingly, yes, i do feel bad for the plants that die so i can eat them. this world is riddled with tragedy in every waking moment. i think i was born with excess sympathy.

[Twoism-ist]

If you are human, you are automatically a potential murderer. Peace is just violence in disguise. Gandhi's time was the era of the simple rifle. Today, India possesses nuclear weapons. Mahatma's ganndha blow your ass up now.

Please don't think I wave a pistol around like a pompous prick quoting stupid NRA speeches. I think rifles are fun for marksmanship n sporting and such. I won't hunt, I love animals. If I really have to, I'll use one to protect myself. I wouldn't like it, but what the hell am I gonna do?

I'll tell you what, I won't shoot to kill, I'll shoot to incapacitate.

[turquoise70]

If you are human, you are automatically a potential murderer. Peace is just violence in disguise. Gandhi's time was the era of the simple rifle. Today, India possesses nuclear weapons. Mahatma's ganndha blow your ass up now.

Please don't think I wave a pistol around like a pompous prick quoting stupid NRA speeches. I think rifles are fun for marksmanship n sporting and such. I won't hunt, I love animals. If I really have to, I'll use one to protect myself. I wouldn't like it, but what the hell am I gonna do?

I'll tell you what, I won't shoot to kill, I'll shoot to incapacitate.

it's not so much the way people talk about it that gets under my skin. we can all shout aphorisms all day long and not get anywhere. as a matter of fact, the world is a violent place. i happen to feel bad about this, all the time. most people don't. maybe i'm fucked up in the head. i call it morality, but maybe i'm just emotionally underdeveloped. i don't care anymore. god i hate myself when i talk about this. and worse yet, i hate everyone else when they talk about it too. i want us all to be friends and hug. we never will. the world is violent. there's no reprieve from it. god i hate this. nothing justifies violence because justification is a fake idea. there's just actions and ways we feel about them, and i feel the wrong way i guess. i feel the way a dead animal feels about it. i feel the way an evolutionary DEAD END feels about it. why don't you all go on and live lives full of vitality and reproduction and i'll just get predator'ed by someone with a bigger gun. god i hate this hate this hate this.

[Twoism-ist]

If you are human, you are automatically a potential murderer. Peace is just violence in disguise. Gandhi's time was the era of the simple rifle. Today, India possesses nuclear weapons. Mahatma's ganndha blow your ass up now.

Please don't think I wave a pistol around like a pompous prick quoting stupid NRA speeches. I think rifles are fun for marksmanship n sporting and such. I won't hunt, I love animals. If I really have to, I'll use one to protect myself. I wouldn't like it, but what the hell am I gonna do?

I'll tell you what, I won't shoot to kill, I'll shoot to incapacitate.

it's not so much the way people talk about it that gets under my skin. we can all shout aphorisms all day long and not get anywhere. as a matter of fact, the world is a violent place. i happen to feel bad about this, all the time. most people don't. maybe i'm fucked up in the head. i call it morality, but maybe i'm just emotionally underdeveloped. i don't care anymore. god i hate myself when i talk about this. and worse yet, i hate everyone else when they talk about it too. i want us all to be friends and hug. we never will. the world is violent. there's no reprieve from it. god i hate this. nothing justifies violence because justification is a fake idea. there's just actions and ways we feel about them, and i feel the wrong way i guess. i feel the way a dead animal feels about it. i feel the way an evolutionary DEAD END feels about it. why don't you all go on and live lives full of vitality and reproduction and i'll just get predator'ed by someone with a bigger gun. god i hate this hate this hate this.

:C
I really don't know what to say, except that I have been where you are, and arguably, still am.

[turquoise70]

sorry man. my response was completely not necessary. i just get so wound up over this.

no hard feelings everyone.

obviously i'm a little bit unhinged upstairs. i'm gonna bow out of this discussion for a while so people can breathe and i can count to 10. b-sides, no healthy discussion can take place while i'm freaking out monopolizing the topic.

[TheSilenceEchoes]

The remedy for safety is nonviolence.

Every person who owns a gun for their own protection, is part of the chain reaction and a potentional murderer.

I agree with this. But i can imagine too that it might make you feel more protected to own one. (not me though, i don't know, i think i never even want to hold one, and the fact there's a lethal weapon in my house would make me feel LESS safe to be honest).

I have pepperspray though to feel more safe. Even pepperspray is illegal here in NL, but i think: f*** you, i'd rather be illegal than get raped thank you very much

Edit: SORRY FORGOT TO READ THE SECOND PAGE, WILL READ IT NOW

[TheSilenceEchoes]

it's not so much the way people talk about it that gets under my skin. we can all shout aphorisms all day long and not get anywhere. as a matter of fact, the world is a violent place. i happen to feel bad about this, all the time. most people don't. maybe i'm fucked up in the head. i call it morality, but maybe i'm just emotionally underdeveloped. i don't care anymore. god i hate myself when i talk about this. and worse yet, i hate everyone else when they talk about it too. i want us all to be friends and hug. we never will. the world is violent. there's no reprieve from it. god i hate this. nothing justifies violence because justification is a fake idea. there's just actions and ways we feel about them, and i feel the wrong way i guess. i feel the way a dead animal feels about it. i feel the way an evolutionary DEAD END feels about it. why don't you all go on and live lives full of vitality and reproduction and i'll just get predator'ed by someone with a bigger gun. god i hate this hate this hate this.

I hear you, man.

[dave_from_2001]

Lightweight game rifle here. I am from a rural area where pulling food directly out of the ecosystem is normal, and anyway, if you are going to cook and eat mammal meat, it is less expensive and of assured qualities. The subtraction and preparation of game is honorable.

I don't understand how a person who would dumbly consume a cow murdered by a robot, takes an anti-hunting stance.

[dave_from_2001]

The guns are weapons thing is kind of weak, and correlated so fast too often. Weapons are defensive. I am not worried about the spruce-hens. Some are, some aren't, obviously.

[Aesthetics]

The remedy for safety is nonviolence.

Every person who owns a gun for their own protection, is part of the chain reaction and a potentional murderer.

Kind of common sense but I forgot to add that this causes the world getting more and more unsafe. Especially the USA because it's the only place in the civilized world where guns are legal?

[Vexille]

One of my clients at work runs a rifle and handgun training/safety/sport shooting program and he's always trying to get me into it. But right now I don't feel like spending the money to buy a rifle and the associated equipment.

My dad used to duck hunt and has a shotgun for that. I'll probably end up with it when I get my own house soon. He also used to have a .22 iirc, not sure where it's gone to now. My uncle might have it now.

My friends dad has a large rifle collection, it's impressive and has probably 20-25 different ones. Some are old like M1 Garand and a Mosin Nagant. He goes hunting a lot and lives way up in the mountains. His back yard is a steep river bank so me and my friend often shoot from his deck into floating targets down there (~100 yrds).


I was also an Eagle Scout. So yea, I kinda grew up with guns (mostly rifles and usually .22s). Don't normally talk about it though, too many people take this stuff personally and try to use their political agenda at a moments notice to tell you you're wrong so they can feel better about themselves.

[polar sky]

I'm not an owner of any but I have shot them before. My Grandpa was in World War II and my Grandma's Brother operated a gun factory down in Kentucky back in the 1940s. He was given a Thompson Automatic Submachine Gun as a gift when he returned home or shortly after they married I think. Anyways he let me fire off some rounds out on his land when I was about 15 or so, I remember it lifting in the air as I fired the heavy bastard... Here's a picture of what it looked like (taken off wiki). It didn't have a drum, just a standard straight clip. I have a pic of me shooting it, I'll dig it up later.



I love guns and I wouldn't mind getting one in the near future for sport.

[Vexille]

Tommy guns are awesome.

[Cupz]

[Chuck Beckles]

It's pretty silly when people think that if you own a gun, you are a violent person. Many, many people in the U.S. own guns and only use them at shooting ranges and not on other people's faces. It's true!

[jakestott]