TH vs TCH - how do you feel?

Opothecary · Post by **Opothecary** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:35 pm

I think every album since MHTRTC has had its detractors for various reasons, however I think the last 2 albums have probably had the most criticism, but for very different reasons.

I think TCH was their way of saying that they don't want to be pigeonholed into using childrens' voices, TH was an attempt to leave the melodies on the cutting room floor (for the most part, I think Nothing is Real is an amazing exception to that, basically fan service for the people who would complain about "no melodies")

In both cases I think they were attempts to leave out an ingredient of the secret sauce to challenge themselves, and also avoid repeating themselves. I think TH was by far the better attempt of the 2 (TH has had more spins over here in 5 months than TCH did in 8 years).

I really dig the purposely fragmented sounding production of TH, it almost reminds me of R35TT in that respect, where songs begin and end at weird places. I know that's the work of the person compiling it in the case of R35TT, but from a listening perspective, I like that feel.

The music is still unmistakably BoC whereas I think TCH was a little overproduced and boring by the end of it and just seemed a little anonymous on the back half of the record. When I say overproduced, I mean it in the BoC context, everything was a little too purposely damaged. I didn't have a problem with the guitars, it was more from the production and songwriting standpoint. I think they can make great use of the guitar when they are not being self conscious about it (just look at R35TT)

Jonse · Post by **Jonse** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:52 pm

TCH is far better IMO. While I don't feel TCH was as good as Geogaddi or MHTRTC, it was a BoC album at its core with a lot to digest and many minor details. It still felt cohesive and textural, whereas TH does not, with the textural part being mainly an artistic choice (the VHS tape sort of thing, something I don't care for). It wasn't insanely repetitive and although it had some filler, it had nowhere near as much as TH has.

TH harvest is the only BoC album I'd give a negative review to. From the track structure, sounds, instrumentation, ordering, mixing and mastering, lessened use of stereo, more minimalistic but without strong melodies or beats to carry the album without all those little details, moments that are really cool but die off way too fast, absolute filler tracks (Collapse being by far the worst), at least one really sloppy track that sounds like it was done in one take, tracks that seem really derivative and uninspired, and tracks that simply just don't go anywhere when they should, I feel it's quite a mess and probably the biggest disappointment musically I've ever heard, though Random Access Memories is a strong competitor for that. Of course, this is all just me. Some people really like TH (typically the kind of people who love the really old back catalog stuff, which while I like some tracks from Old Tunes I am not really one of those people) and I'm fine with that. Unfortunately I have to add this little bit because in the past my opinion of the album has actually upset people to the extent that someone told me to "let it go" and that I was "one of the few people who did not enjoy TH", as though having an opinion that isn't positive is not worth expressing and as though there wasn't a whole lot of people who felt TH was a let down. In fact, that person might have been you but I'm not positive.

dajahew1 · Post by **dajahew1** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:54 pm

Personally, I enjoyed TCH more than TH. Tomorrow's Harvest just felt like an album of filler tracks for me, there wasn't a track on it that blew me away like the way Pete Standing Alone, Julie and Candy, and Peacock Tail did. TCH seemed similar to Geogaddi in the way the tracks progressed, except it didn't sound as gloomy, whereas TH just seems to be a few random "long" tracks with a few boring interludes in between. But hey, that's just my opinion.

Jonse · Post by **Jonse** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:56 pm

dajahew1 wrote:Personally, I enjoyed TCH more than TH. Tomorrow's Harvest just felt like an album of filler tracks for me, there wasn't a track on it that blew me away like the way Pete Standing Alone, Julie and Candy, and Peacock Tail did. TCH seemed similar to Geogaddi in the way the tracks progressed, except it didn't sound as gloomy, whereas TH just seems to be a few random "long" tracks with a few boring interludes in between. But hey, that's just my opinion.

I agree. Nothing blew me away on TH remotely. The closest and by far the best track for me is New Seeds which I actually feel is a really good track, and if the rest of the album was that good I would have enjoyed it.

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:34 pm

Love em both. Neither are in the Geogaddi league - but then that record stands apart, not just in BOC's body of work, but as a truly, truly great moment in British music.

Jonse · Post by **Jonse** » Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:41 pm

Mexicola wrote:Love em both. Neither are in the Geogaddi league - but then that record stands apart, not just in BOC's body of work, but as a truly, truly great moment in British music.

Not just British music, but a truly great moment in music in general. A timeless moment. Geogaddi is a life changing record. When people talk about those sort of albums they'll highlight works by really famous British and American musicians and bands, I tend to notice. Society as a whole tends to remember more things like The Beatles or Bob Dylan, or with more contemporary works things like Radiohead and Nirvana. I typically don't hear many comments about electronic albums being life changing, which is unfortunate, but I guess the majority of people tend to gravitate towards more Rock-oriented music (not to belittle that sort of stuff). Regardless, Geogaddi changes lives.

At least it changed mine. Changed the way I heard music and felt about music permanently. Transcends cultural background, age, etc... Should be recognized more worldwide IMO (I'm surprised it's not particularly recognized in a handful of European countries that really enjoy electronic music, but then again those cultures are more house-oriented when it comes to electronic music) but some people just aren't into ambient techno, or IDM, or whatever it'll be referred to by. Regardless, it'll be one of my favorites for as long as I live. The unfortunate part is that I don't think they'll ever make something as good as it again. Just doesn't seem feasible.

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 12:43 am

Rodheh wrote:Not just British music, but a truly great moment in music in general. A timeless moment. Geogaddi is a life changing record.

Spot on. Geogaddi was the moment I truly fell for electronic music, asides from a brief flirtation with Jean-Micheal Jarre in the mid 80's. Bewildering and wonderful.

Negamuse · Post by **Negamuse** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:52 am

It feels as though TH was the first album I've heard of theirs where they're trying to make something like something that already exists. They've always had individual sounds that are sampled from wherever or painstakingly recreated, but as a flavour rolled up into their own tracks you get a sense of them being recognizably BoC tunes at the end of the day. TH feels like they almost did it the other way round, take their own sounds and make a 70s soundtrack album out of them. Lucky for me I dig TH but still odd in their canon.

TCH got a lot of hate that I don't understand, and I can't believe it's just down to swapping children and seabirds for guitars. It IS a bit front-heavy, I think it tails off, but then you look at the EP and tracks like 747 it sounds like they got better and better at making that polished, shimmering layered sound as time went on. So it's kind of surprising that they seemed to go completely the opposite direction for TH. I sort of wonder what's untapped in that vein? No-one else has really done it.

That said, if they hadn't done that whole TCH sound thing, there'd be no Reach For The Dead. That sounds to me like a song that couldn't have been made had they gone straight from Geogaddi to TH.

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:38 am

I honestly feel like there's a lot of over-thinking it going on here. My feeling, and I think this is validated in interviews, is that the BoC process is quite simple:
- Have concept for album
- Make a lot of tracks according to this concept
- Curate the best into a coherent storyline
- Wait 6 years
- Release album in a year
I guess in the past, for MHTR, they've had sometihng like 10 years of material or something to choose from, and were probably quite easily able to choose tracks to fit the album's theme. For Geogaddi we know they wrote hundreds of tracks. When TCH came out, they quite openly said that their concept wasnt "make another boc album", it was "make a summer road trip album", and I think that the way they approach that is to use whatever musical talent they have at their disposal to make the music they want to make - not to "be BoC".

Mindshifter · Post by **Mindshifter** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:42 am

I love TH. It's incredibly focused and I love the idea of some obscure soundtrack of an forgotten post-apocalyptic '80 movie. It surprised me that they didn't do something like this sooner; the movies of that era have something very BoC'ish.

machinea · Post by **machinea** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:14 am

MrMessiah wrote:It feels as though TH was the first album I've heard of theirs where they're trying to make something like something that already exists.

Yes. It felt the musical equivalent of Beyond the Black Rainbow. And it was wonderfully mastered. There are a few songs I never bother with, white cyclosa and collapse come to mind. I find more than half of it 10-12 songs quite good and then the rest I leave by the way side. And while Geogaddi stands apart in all fairness I'm partial to about the same percentage of songs on that album as well. Maybe Rodheh is right, I quite like the back catalog and so maybe TH hits that particular fancy.

Stickyfingers72 · Post by **Stickyfingers72** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:32 pm

The Campfire Headphase is by far my favourite BOC album. The best musically out of the albums and the most accessible. Underrated for the wrong reasons imo.

Hope the next album leans more towards this.

Headphase · Post by **Headphase** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:25 pm

The week before TCH was released was the day I got into BOC (after watching salad fingers)

TCH will remain my favourite BOC album. It is perfection. MHTRTC and Geogaddi are also amazing in their own way

I was a little disappointed with TH. It just wasn't what I was expecting, but it is still an amazing album nevertheless

Goiter Sanchez · Post by **Goiter Sanchez** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:31 pm

I actually think that TH is their best album thus far! It's nearly perfect to me.

Moloch · Post by **Moloch** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 7:55 pm

Mindshifter wrote:I love TH. It's incredibly focused and I love the idea of some obscure soundtrack of an forgotten post-apocalyptic '80 movie. It surprised me that they didn't do something like this sooner; the movies of that era have something very BoC'ish.

same here

warphead · Post by **warphead** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:15 pm

TH is my favorite between the two. If you're a fan of the more poppy and commercialized sound of TCH then I presume you will struggle with Tomorrows Harvest. Such is life.

All their albums are different, and I presume in the future this trend will continue. That's a good thing surely?

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:22 pm

warphead wrote: If you're a fan of the more poppy and commercialized sound of TCH then I presume you will struggle with Tomorrows Harvest. Such is life.

Poppy? Commercialised?? Dayvan Cowboy I assume?

Moloch · Post by **Moloch** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:52 pm

I must say I'm happy that listeners struggle with the new album. It's indeed a good sign, and means their music ain't 'mainstream' or 'fan-service' at all. I personally hate when I ask 'do you know BOC' and I'm being replied 'oh yeah of course, I love Dayvan Cowboy!'

WeHadNormality · Post by **WeHadNormality** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:46 pm

Mexicola wrote:
warphead wrote: If you're a fan of the more poppy and commercialized sound of TCH then I presume you will struggle with Tomorrows Harvest. Such is life.
Poppy? Commercialised?? Dayvan Cowboy I assume?

I'd have to say I think Satellite Anthem Icarus or Peacock Tail sound more "poppy" than Dayvan to me, but I suppose they're not so popular as Dayvan.

As for comparing TCH with TH, personally, I don't see the point (not a criticism of this thread btw peeps), but two very different albums. Both are great and both have some incredible and some not-so-incredible tracks on them, same with all their albums and EP's. Just glad they bought something a little different to the table like they do with every release.

Jonse · Post by **Jonse** » Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:13 pm

Moloch wrote:I must say I'm happy that listeners struggle with the new album. It's indeed a good sign, and means their music ain't 'mainstream' or 'fan-service' at all. I personally hate when I ask 'do you know BOC' and I'm being replied 'oh yeah of course, I love Dayvan Cowboy!'

Excuse me, who "struggles" with this album? It's not hard to listen to a track like Cold Earth or Reach for the Dead and hear them for exactly what they are. This isn't some goddamn noise or early industrial record, this is an IDM/ambient techno record from one of the MOST accessible bands in that category (not that this makes them bad by any means).

So effectively, you're happy that listeners are disappointed, as I know nobody who is disappointed because they don't get the record.