Vote!

A_Northern_Soul · Post by **A_Northern_Soul** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:32 pm

UK Twoismers - don't forget to vote tomorrow. Regional assemblies and, crucially, electoral reform.

I'm saying YES to AV!

BrandNewRetro · Post by **BrandNewRetro** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:34 pm

A_Northern_Soul wrote:UK Twoismers - don't forget to vote tomorrow. Regional assemblies and, crucially, electoral reform.

I'm saying YES to AV!

Me too!

Seeya_Later · Post by **Seeya_Later** » Wed May 04, 2011 3:39 pm

Qué?

Edit: Ah, I see... UK twoism-ers.

donacidae · Post by **donacidae** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:08 pm

I'm voting Yes to AV too, and so should you unless you want to unite with the Tories, BNP, and John Prescott. Which you don't, of course.

Seeya_Later · Post by **Seeya_Later** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:11 pm

I'm not in the UK, but would anyone care to explain what you mean by AV?

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Wed May 04, 2011 4:55 pm

Yes, I'm voting YES too! Sadly, we won't win.... Booooooo!

What's AV? It's the 'Alternative Vote' system, which has been proposed to replace the so-called 'First Past The Post' system we currently have for our General Elections.

I could bore you with the in's and out's of the system, but it basically means that it would be much harder for the Conservatives (US Twoismers - this equals 'Republican') to win power.

LIke I said, I'll be voting YES!! in a HUGE way!!

Seeya_Later · Post by **Seeya_Later** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:02 pm

We understand what conservatives are in the US. In fact I consider myself one.

Cryabetes · Post by **Cryabetes** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:04 pm

Seeya_Later wrote:I'm not in the UK, but would anyone care to explain what you mean by AV?

wikipedia could
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Vote

but I think this image does well in explaining it

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:08 pm

Actually, I'll explain a little.

At the moment, the candidate with the most votes wins. Sounds fair right? And it was once upon a time when politics was a little more black and white, yes and no, right and wrong. Sadly, the days when one party swept to power with over 50% of the vote are long, long gone. The reality is that the vast majority of people never actually want the government they end up with, with somewhere around 60-70% of people voting for one of the 'other guys'. eg. If Conservatives get 35%, Labour gets 28%, Liberals gets 20% and 17% being split between a range of pther parties - you've a situation where 65% of the people didn't actually vote for the current government! Less than ideal...

The problem is that the current system simply says, if you win one more vote the than the next guy, you win the 'seat'. Win enough seats and you take power. It's lead to tactical voting, with people feeling that they can't vote for who they'd really like to win, because they live in areas where 'their guy' has no chance of winning. eg. if I lived in a strong Conservative area (ie. right wing) but wanted Labour (left wing) to win, I'd probably end up voting Liberal (middle ground party) because I know they've a better chance of blocking the Conservative chap winning my local seat.

What AV does, is to ask everyone to rank their local candidates in order of preference. It also demands that you win over 50% of the votes to win, rather than 1 vote more than the next guy. It works like this: if nobody wins 50% of the vote, the person who won the least votes is knocked out of the running. All the votes they won are counted again, with their 2nd choices winning the votes. This goes on until someone wins over 50% and they are then elected.

It sounds complicated to some people, but it really isn't at all. It means that no votes are wasted as dead votes. I'm also hopeful that it would make peope think alot more about who they vote and also pay more attention to parties they wouldn't usually vote for.

Seeya_Later · Post by **Seeya_Later** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:10 pm

Very smart system, I'd vote for it. In the US it basically comes down to choosing between 2 options. Very stupid when you hate 'em both.

Edit: The US prides itself in it's democratic system, but as it stands it's pretty lousy.
It's better than nothing though.

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:16 pm

Sadly, the polls show people are 65% against it. Apparently it's 'too complicated' for them and they prefer the current system as it's easier to understand.

Once again, the masses get the politicians they deserve. Sigh....

Seeya_Later · Post by **Seeya_Later** » Wed May 04, 2011 5:19 pm

The more things change, the more they stay the same.

BrandNewRetro · Post by **BrandNewRetro** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:03 pm

Mexicola wrote:Sadly, the polls show people are 65% against it. Apparently it's 'too complicated' for them and they prefer the current system as it's easier to understand.

Once again, the masses get the politicians they deserve. Sigh....

I'll be honest I've not been keeping myself informed of AV as much as I'd like, but I'm really surprised that many people polled against it

It annoys me that people would rather have a system that is easier to understand rather than educate themselves a little bit and have a chance at having a government they actually want. Tell you what pisses me off aswell, those Say No To AV posters with pictures of soldiers on saying if you vote yes then they're not going to have enough money to spend on army gear etc. Maybe if we had a better government soldiers wouldn't be out there in the first place, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's these kind of tactics are swaying voters to say no...with our society being the way it is and all.

BrandNewRetro · Post by **BrandNewRetro** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:11 pm

Seeya_Later wrote:The more things change, the more they stay the same.

But it gets to the point where a system that is hundreds of years old NEEDS to change. The same governments want to stay with the current system because they know it's the only way they can stay in power time after time. The same two governments have flitted between being in power long before we were all born, surely even a small chance at change is worth voting for?

Pantheon · Post by **Pantheon** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:26 pm

I'm voting yes also!!! Hazzzah!

The Friendly Stranger · Wed May 04, 2011 10:33 pm

I'm voting yes. It's a total no brainer.

I'm pretty disgusted by the amount of officially backed lies and propaganda that have seemingly influenced the public's perception of what this vote is really about. I like to think I have a reasonable amount of common sense and I still haven't heard an argument from the No campaign that stands up. If anything I think this vote has come at the wrong time - people are so disheartened by politics in this country right now and this would have been a great way to bring the general public back into the conversation.

It's a shame because I genuinely believe that if AV had been passed, the Lib Dems would have justified selling their principles down the river by joining the coalition. Before you jump on me, I'm thinking of the bigger picture here. This is a genuine opportunity to increase public interest in politics and in turn make political parties more accountable as they would have to work harder for your vote.

I hope I'm wrong about the outcome more than anything right now.

BrandNewRetro · Post by **BrandNewRetro** » Wed May 04, 2011 10:36 pm

Isn't it funny how us lot always seem to go for the same thing, an intelligent bunch (I mean, we all like BoC and generally ace music and clearly know how to spell) and yet, we always get the complete opposite of what we all want? I think we're living in the wrong country to be honest or more to the point, the wrong planet!

jakestott · Post by **jakestott** » Wed May 04, 2011 11:58 pm

BrandNewRetro wrote:Isn't it funny how us lot always seem to go for the same thing, an intelligent bunch (I mean, we all like BoC and generally ace music and clearly know how to spell) and yet, we always get the complete opposite of what we all want? I think we're living in the wrong country to be honest or more to the point, the wrong planet!

Hahaha absolutely spot on.

Waterbagel · Post by **Waterbagel** » Thu May 05, 2011 1:39 am

meh.. is any viewpoint really "right"?

isn't it all meaningless and only relative to other things?

<more>

Tommy · Post by **Tommy** » Thu May 05, 2011 3:37 am

Canadian election too a couple days ago. Not super satisfied with the results.

____twoism

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