Scottish Independance

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:44 pm

I don't know enough about the financial implications - how solvent a Scottish nation would be - to be able to offer a fully educated view to be perfectly honest. I do, however, know only too well the resentment generated by the UK powerbase being so dominated in the South East of England. You and I were raised in a similar part of the World at a similar time period and we know only too well that those 250 miles, which should be nothing geographically, are EVERYTHING in reality.

London doesn't give two stuffs about much north of Lincolnshire > Worcestershire, with one or two notable exceptions. To my mind, anything that gives genuine decision making and power back to the more provincial areas should be welcomed.

Bottom line: if the Tories don't want it, I instantly ask myself 'why not?'

fujee · Post by **fujee** » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:40 am

Mexicola wrote:Bottom line: if the Tories don't want it, I instantly ask myself 'why not?'

It shouldn't be, but primarily a large percentage of my political views are based from this standing.

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:33 pm

http://www.stjornmalogstjornsysla.is/wp ... .9.1.1.pdf

Anyone interested? An icelandic university published this paper detailing their view on Scottish independence - it's probably the first properly balanced paper I've read, because as outsiders they have no political motivation to fulfil.

Here is a (pro-indy) site's take on it:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/north-from ... more-42483

There are no anti-indy takes on it. Obviously. Because "project fear".

panic button · Post by **panic button** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 9:17 am

A_Northern_Soul wrote:^ well, indeed.

In an ideal world I'd also be voting to establish "The People's Socialist Republic of The North East". That would be a definite Yes.

Little known fact - a wee village called Chopwell near Newcastle once declared itself independent from the UK. didn't work out, but it is still referred to as "Little Moscow" at times.

Haha, I grew up in Chopwell AKA Little Moscow. The above happened during the 1926 strike and people are still proud of it now. I think that Chopwell and possibly two other villages up in Scotland held out the longest, and the residents pretty much declared independence, flew the Red Flag, and replaced the Bible in the church with the Communist Manifesto. It's a pretty interesting story and something people there a really proud of.

More info in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlBP_SD6dQU

A_Northern_Soul · Post by **A_Northern_Soul** » Sat Nov 09, 2013 1:14 pm

^ cheers for the link!

My Dad spent a lot of his childhood around Chopwell. I'm from Tantobie originally.

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:02 am

funny one from the guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... dependence
how do our northern comrades feel about this? =p

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:16 am

Techboy wrote:funny one from the guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... dependence
how do our northern comrades feel about this? =p

I think there'd have to be a separate vote for the Newcastle area to be honest. Feelings could be volatile, as usual, and the last thing anyone needs is a Geordie Balkans.

That's already a reality. It's called the Meadowell Estate.

Interesting idea mind, albeit one that's as likely to happy as Shergar winning the next Grand National (ridden by Lord Lucan). As a Geordie myself I feel very little affinity or loyalty towards London or the South East. Quite the opposite. But do I want to swap being an ostracised, second-class Englishman, for being an ostracised, second-class Scotsman? Can't help but feel we're between a rock and a hard place, although I can't do feel slightly closer affinity to Scotland than to Eton. At least I could almost see Scotland out my bedroom window as a kid..

A_Northern_Soul · Post by **A_Northern_Soul** » Tue Dec 03, 2013 8:09 pm

It is an interesting article, albeit not entirely serious.

I think a lot of of people in northern England will feel more affinity socially or culturally with parts of Scotland than south east England. Every time I go to Glasgow I'm struck by the similarity to Newcastle - strangers talk to each other at gigs and at the bar! And parts of East Lothian where Mrs_A_Northern_Soul's folks live remind me a lot of the wee villages in Co Durham I grew up in.

Regardless of whether or not Scotland goes for independence (and I'm still not totally sold after the white paper last week), I think there's a strong argument in favour of more devolved power regionally within the UK.

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Wed Feb 12, 2014 11:47 am

Couple of nice links for anyone interested

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... nly-option

And a guilt-trippy "love-bomb":
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... e-scotland

To anyone English reading link #2, worry not, Scottish votes haven't affected the outcome of an election since WW2 or something:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour ... -scotland/

And the financial times weight in on the matter:
http://archive.is/vcQ78

Torn n Frayed · Post by **Torn n Frayed** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:19 pm

Damo says yes!

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:45 pm

Oh, *that* Houston?

Seems many musicians are in favour to me.

Foghlamaiche · Post by **Foghlamaiche** » Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:21 pm

I was a member of the Conservative Party and a staunch No voter. Over the last twelve months I have changed to a member of the Scottish Green Party and I will be voting Yes in September.

I would highly recommend James Robertson's And the Land Lay Still to anyone with any interest in the referendum.

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Foghlamaiche wrote:I was a member of the Conservative Party and a staunch No voter. Over the last twelve months I have changed to a member of the Scottish Green Party and I will be voting Yes in September.

I would highly recommend James Robertson's And the Land Lay Still to anyone with any interest in the referendum.

That is quite some political transformation, how did that happen?

Foghlamaiche · Post by **Foghlamaiche** » Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:04 pm

Techboy wrote:That is quite some political transformation, how did that happen?

The reason I recommended that book is that it sparked a slow but complete transformation of the way I saw Scotland and my own place in it. The more I thought about it, the more I realised that I didn't think that the Conservatives, or any Westminster government you'd care to name recently, truly had Scotland's interests at heart. I began to think about the things that really mattered to me - free education and healthcare at the point of use, a welfare state that looks after the most vulnerable members of society and a country that's free of nuclear weapons and doesn't go to war for dubious reasons. For so many of these issues I looked down south and realised I didn't like what I saw.

Most importantly of all I thought about how important it is for the decisions in Scotland to be made by the people who live there without any caveats from Westminster. It's true that there are things that are unexplained - the issue of currency and entry into the EU and so on - but we're talking about relatively minor issues in the grand scheme of things. A new Scottish state is going to exist for hundreds of years and I like to think I'm voting with the bigger picture in mind. I'm not claiming for a second that it's going to be a land of milk and honey or that independence will solve all our problems; it likely won't and it wouldn't surprise me if things get worse before they get better. I'm willing to live with that. If the generations of young people that come after me are able to live in a Scotland that's more caring and looks after its citizens better then we've done the right thing and I believe that with a Yes vote that Scotland can be achieved.

As for joining the Greens, I had a serious look at what all of the parties in Scotland were offering and decided that they best represent what I'd like Scotland to be. I disagree with the SNP on many issues but I think that by and large they're not bad at governance and I'd much rather see them in than Scottish Labour.

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 7:52 am

You guys need to get your fingers out. It's stalling...

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:14 am

Haha. Very frustrating article to read. I trust prof curtice (I went to Strathclyde uni!) and he's been spot on before. But the article even mentions the large number of undecided voters, who, because of strange polling questions, can't be included in this total. They've been 30% or more so if even 40% of those join the 40% of existing yes voters, we'd be over the mark by a few percent. There was also another article a few days ago saying statistically it was too close to call at the moment due to the large amount of noise in the poll results. That said - from the perspective of a campaigner, talking about poll results is basically a fruitless waste of effort and we would do better to spend time actually discussing the ideas and facts that support independence.

Haha, Royal Bank, good riddance. The last thing we need is to bail them out again. They're 80% owned by the British Government at the moment and as we would be splitting assets we would end up owning our 6%-ish I'm sure, so maybe we can help them out with some of the money we save from our cutbacks on things like illegal wars and nuclear weapons. I also am hopeful for sensible cutbacks on state welfare (i.e. take the absurd amount of money that we give to scroungers who don't deserve it*, and give it to impoverished families / disabled people / the NHS / others who need it.) Anyway, one of them credit agencies said our financial services industry could be doing with downsizing which would improve our lender rating. Win win!

Also, I particularly dislike at the end where it says "Salmomd is winning over voters". Grassroots campaigners are winning over voters. If we left it to the politicians we would have fuck all hope of ever achieving anything. Or at least, that's my experience of democracy in the United Kingdom :p

* http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mi ... ers-385035
http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/05/m ... fit-fraud/

Mexicola · Post by **Mexicola** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:42 am

I hope you're right. I'd love to see this happen, I really would.

Logan71 · Post by **Logan71** » Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:03 am

A handy new website that gives simple, clear answers to all of the core questions about Scottish Indepedence.

http://www.indyrefanswers.com/

Techboy · Post by **Techboy** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:07 pm

this should be a goodyin if anyone's interested.

http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/new ... ost=149564

Cupz · Post by **Cupz** » Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:47 pm

Thanks for the link, techboy. I'll be watching even though I'm not that educated in the matter. Lets hope it will be informative.