War. What is it good for?

[Valotonin]

I don't help people because it makes me feel good.
It is often with great difficulty that I do and I feel as if I don't do so enough.
Do you see no point in anything that doesn't directly benefit you?

Why do you think like a computer when it comes to the value of human life ?
People like you scare me, man. What a bleak and superficial world this must be from your perspective to lead you to conclusions like that. I feel sorry for you.

[drillkicker]

Cmon man it's pretty obvious. Killing a person that needn't have been killed because they could have cooperated with the ideal scenario of society is a waste of life. Any person can understand that we need to cooperate in order to survive. I'm not saying every person is capable of it now, but eventually, it will be crucial. Killing needn't be, how can you possiby reason reason for it?

Using the phrase "waste of life" is extremely ignorant. Do you know how many lives can be supported by a human corpse ? Far more than the one that was lost. There are too many people in the world as it is, so I don't understand why you want to population to continue increasing. There need to be deaths in any population to avoid overcrowding. Competition is healthy, and the competition deficit that humans have is the reason why the world is in such a bad state.

I don't help people because it makes me feel good.
It is often with great difficulty that I do and I feel as if I don't do so enough.
Do you see no point in anything that doesn't directly benefit you?

Why do you think like a computer when it comes to the value of human life ?
People like you scare me, man. What a bleak and superficial world this must be from your perspective to lead you to conclusions like that. I feel sorry for you.

You're making the same argument now, but you aren't giving any justification for it. You claim that I'm bad for the world, but you refuse to explain what makes you think so. There's absolutely nothing wrong with valuing yourself over others, it's the most natural and healthy way of thinking. Valuing others above myself is the reason why I was depressed in the first place, and that's because it isn't how a living organism is supposed to think.

[Spenner]

Using the phrase "waste of life" is extremely ignorant. Do you know how many lives can be supported by a human corpse ? Far more than the one that was lost. There are too many people in the world as it is, so I don't understand why you want to population to continue increasing. There need to be deaths in any population to avoid overcrowding. Competition is healthy, and the competition deficit that humans have is the reason why the world is in such a bad state.

What kind of logic is this? Can you elaborate? Also slow down buddy because you've started putting words in my mouth. Having the population increase is absolutely not the optimal solution here, you're way off the charts if you think I was implying that. Helping each other out and being mindful of our collective situation obviously includes the fact that we are over-populated and need to manage ourselves better.

Competition is healthy but have you even tried looking at this with any sort of sense of scale? We have macro-competition in every aspect of our lives, killing each other is an extremist end of this sense of competition you seem to like. Being killed in a war is not someone out-competing you, it's the result of someone dulling their senses and doing what they've been told to do with a provocative reason that makes them think their livelihood is at risk.

The ignorance is all on you from what I can see dude.

[fujee]

This is getting embarrassing.

[Dandegyrecorder]

lmao

[Omikron]

This thread has the become the 'argue with drillkicker' thread

[Dandegyrecorder]

This is getting embarrassing.

Huge understatement tbh

[Spenner]

Don't worry too mcuh, people looking at any other topic can get a better demonstration of this community's actual moral attitudes. I'm glad drill has his own thread to play in though.

[Valotonin]

I don't think drillkicker should be scolded for his opinion.
In other threads he has had some really interesting things to say. We can't all agree on everything.

[Cupz]

Agreed, dk has some strong opinions, but I love him for it.

[fujee]

Just to clarify, when I said this was getting embarrassing, I meant more going round in circles when it is clear there is a difference in opinion and personal experience. No one is casting aspersions on Drill's character, but that isn't to say his views are very different to a lot of others round here. Part of the reason Twoism is so great is because we are generally very accepting of everyone. Unconventional opinions aren't necessarily bad, but to not challenge them would be foolish. I hope DK does not feel ostracised.

[drillkicker]

There are a lot of communities that would ostracize me for saying unpopular opinions (I won't name names, but there's one such forum in particular that's also dedicated to Warp artists), but I'm glad you folks here don't do that. It feels really nice to have a place where people don't hold grudges against each other.

[re-phaelam-ed]

look...its touchy...when someone who hasnt lived long enough to say something stupid enough without thought....that needs to be put in check. a world war....ANY war is terrible.
my grandparents told me stories of the nazi's, while loading the trains with jews, would take babies and toss them in the air an shoot them. the babies were useless to take to the concentration camps. so...have fun with them and use em for target practice.
my grandmother and grandfather [oma and opa] were helping jews escape. in turn my grandmothers brother was captured and was injected with gasoline because my oma would not give up information about the underground that was helping jews escape.

what he said was heartless, and said without ANY frame of reference for what he said implied. there are some things that are just beyond stupid to say.

war doesnt necessarily stimulate the economy. it may have once....during the second world war. but it creates crashes as well. its a short term, republican [conservative] idea. george bush decimated the country going to war in iraq.

im sorry...what was said upset me greatly. there are MANY other solutions to war.

[drillkicker]

Wow, I guess I spoke too soon.

[Valotonin]

You got emotional storied. Owch.

This happens from time to time.

No disrespect to either parties and I can relate as my grandparents went through some pretty horrific shit in the war.
I don't think that when people speak of war in theory they quite realise the full extent of the implications on a very personal level, which is what was just bought to the table here. It is a perspective changer.

[Spenner]

I don't mind speculation from any side of an argument; so long as there is mutual respect for the other person having reflected a lot genuinely about a topic, I really do value the other side of an opinion. Whenever I ask for elaboration or feel like something is ridiculous, I'm just displaying my genuine reaction, and really do want to know what is going on with the argument to better understand things. Knowing the yin and yang paints a much more realistic picture of the topic of debate.

[drillkicker]

You got emotional storied. Owch.

This happens from time to time.

No disrespect to either parties and I can relate as my grandparents went through some pretty horrific shit in the war.
I don't think that when people speak of war in theory they quite realise the full extent of the implications on a very personal level, which is what was just bought to the table here. It is a perspective changer.

Yeah, but the emotional story only has an impact when it actually has something to do with the argument. He just insulted me and then went and rambled about something unrelated to the discussion entirely.

[Mexicola]

I agree to a point, but you must have expected a reaction, surely? It's difficult to make a case for war being a good thing, for people to not care about people they haven't met, etc without getting a strong reaction. At one point you seemed to question why murder is considered wrong, again, that seems provocative for it's own sake, even if your intentions were honourable, which I believe they are, if perhaps misguided in my view.

I don't agree with almost all of what you say on alot of topics, and I've been guilty of a reactionary response to you n the past, for which I apologise. These are your own views, which you clearly put much thought into, so fair enough.

I think what sometimes rattles cages is you offer up your opinions as gospel truth, at times you can appear dismissive of others to the point of bluntness and then seem incredibly touchy when you get picked up for it. That seems especially odd given you stated you don't care about or empathise with people you haven't met. Why so offended or insulted then?

I'm sure you'll explain why my post is stupid, wrong, or both, but at the risk of playing the passive aggressive card I really hope you read this in the spirit it's intended. You're an interesting chap and you have certainly livened the place up for sure. Thank you for that, sincerely. Just please do try and be mindful of your tone sometimes perhaps? Just a suggestion

[Negamuse]

at times you can appear dismissive of others to the point of bluntness and then seem incredibly touchy when you get picked up for it. That seems especially odd given you stated you don't care about or empathise with people you haven't met. Why so offended or insulted then?

It's a good petri dish for the basis of the argument, really. If people removed from you don't matter - REALLY don't matter - then nothing you or I say would be important enough to be moved by. And while that's not, in my opinion, a particularly laudable way to live one's life, it is at least an internally consistent ethos.

The difference between the two situations is that one affects you directly by challenging your personally held opinions, and the other requires you to put yourself in the position of the people directly affected in order to imagine their pain and be affected yourself. As man is at heart, (even in these increasingly isolated modern times), a social animal, that is an evolved-in trait that comes naturally to the vast majority of the population, without any conscious decision to participate in the process. Like I said: a lack of empathy.

I'm very much a live and let live person when it comes to differences of opinion but I don't think it's healthy to encourage that lack of empathy as a healthy way of operating. As a random floating avatar on the internet, and wielding all the power and authority that confers, I would advise anyone who finds themselves in that non-empathetic frame of mind to challenge themselves on it. We live in a world where undeniably awful stuff is going on, has gone on forever, and shows no sign of stopping. War is just one of those things. Contention of resources, in and between nations is another. Of all the traits that might help us survive that, empathy is, to my mind, a pretty fucking useful one to have.

[re-phaelam-ed]

You got emotional storied. Owch.

This happens from time to time.

No disrespect to either parties and I can relate as my grandparents went through some pretty horrific shit in the war.
I don't think that when people speak of war in theory they quite realise the full extent of the implications on a very personal level, which is what was just bought to the table here. It is a perspective changer.

Yeah, but the emotional story only has an impact when it actually has something to do with the argument. He just insulted me and then went and rambled about something unrelated to the discussion entirely.

wow you just can't get out of your own head.

i insulted you because you back handedly took a jab at me on the Trump thread for NO reason AT ALL. then went on to say absolutely ludicrous things about war without actually THINKING about what you are saying and what it implies.
add to that the wealth or thoughtless and negatively provocative posts from you....trying to get a rise out of people. just plain STUPID stuff....put me over, i can't handle people that are thoughtless, and have NO regard for others and live in their own little world, trapped inside their own heads.

you STILL refuse to understand what you said. that, to me is deeply concerning. i am THANKFUL to not know you....and will never get to meet you.